Recently there have been a few threads regarding home/apartment purchases in Italy ....a land I would like to retire to. We have looked at property and found a vast price range from region to region. Would really like to know more about your motives,are you Italian? Love the lifestyle, find the countryside and people charming or is it just a vacation place to return to a few times a year?
From what I understand you have to prove you live in Italy in order to purchase land/autos etc. On our recent trip to Umbria we did find a charming 2 bedroom flat near the basilica for a a price of 300,000 Euros. On the third floor, very secure but a little pricey.....what are your thoughts..would love more opinions. My motives are simple...I like to walk everywhere...I like simplicity,wine and being with my good friends while surrounded by art, music, architecture and splendid scenery.
Posts: 46 | Location: SOUTH ORANGE COUNTY CALIFORNIA | Registered: 06 October 2009
I can speak to our own experience only, but we did not have to be residents when we made our purchase of an abandoned glass factory in Umbria in 2004. We did form an Italian company a couple of years later, in part for tax reasons to do our complete restoration. And because you do need to be a resident to purchase an auto, we purchased in the name of our company. It was easy to form the company. Prices do vary from town to town, and you did not mention the name of the town that you found the flat near the basilica. We looked for a long time because we wished to live within a village, but with a view, to experience the rhythms of village life. We are just 15 minutes from the train station of Chiusi, so easy to go to Florence or Rome by train when we don't want a car in those cities. Some prices: in our village of Piegaro I know of a nice one bedroom apartment, with views, completely furnished for 90,000Euro; another two bedroom with terraces, gardens and views in a small hamlet near Spoleto for 298,000 Euro. Both can be seen at www.hollyinumbria.co.uk Another huge apartment with two garages, views, balcony in our village is for sale for 130,000Euro; needs some cosmetic work, but has a nice fireplace in the kitchen. We found our place by stumbling onto a website of a geometra www.romizi.com and he certainly became our "fixer" helping us purchase our first Italian cell phones to arranging bank loans for major construction. It was a blessing to form a friendship with someone who knew everything about the area. I would recommend making a connection with someone in this forum who lives in the area that you wish to make the purchase and pick their brains. Do you wish to live in a city: prices are higher, or would you be content to be in a village or smaller town: better and more negotiable prices and easy to make friendships. I do know that prices have become rather flat after the economic downturn and owners are willing to negotiate. Do you wish to let your place out weekly to travelers when you are not in residence? There are great websites like vrbo and Slow Travel classified and easy to manage to find a local that can meet your guests. If I can help in any way, I offer my brain to pick! Tanti auguri! Colleen
The main reason for residence is lower utility bills. You can't register a car without residence because they need a place to send the tickets.
Prices vary alot. It's possible here to buy a one bedroom studio apartment 1km from the beach for less then 60K or spend 10x that.
Size , location etc all weigh heavily on prices. If you buy something Italians don't want anymore like a remote country place it can cost less. OTOH when you go to sell it you'll find it that much harder.
Average sizes are much smaller then North America. Apartments can start at less then 50sqm.
Hi LUV I am sure you will find plenty discussions on this subject on expat forums like expatsinitaly.
Our own Barb and Art have been trying to sell their house near Marsciano for a while, so they can tell you the their side of the story
My two cents as a local: if you buy something that needs to be renovated, take into consideration that renovation costs are often higher, much higher than buying a property. In addition, until the end you never really know how much you will spend.
It's doable, and I have done it, but I wish I would have realized it at the beginning.
Don't listen to any techinical person telling you "oh we'll only do it for so many thousand".
Ask if they would commit to a contract for that, most likely they will not.
Another instructive blog on this topic (and many rather wonderful others) is Diana's blog. Just look for her stories about reconstructing her house
As others have said, you do NOT need to be a resident to buy a house! You can buy a house while you're here on vacation!
People often ask us "How much does a house cost in Italy?", and the only way I can respond is to say "How much does a house cost in the United States?" It depends on the area of the country - it seems that the further north you go, the higher the costs, but even in the south, living in a town on the coast will cost more than living inland.
The first thing you have to do is figure out what part of the country you want to live in. What do you want to be close to? We fell in love with Umbria on our very first trip to Italy, and the fact that it was beautiful, full of historic places and charming villages, and was about halfway between Rome and Florence made us sure this was the right place for us. We also knew we wanted to be right in a small village, not a large town, and not out in the country. It might take you a while to think about what you want, but once you figure out some of the basics, it all starts to fall into place. Good luck!
Neither my wife nor I are of Italian ancestry (maybe in a former life), but we simply love the history, the culture, the food and wine, and – since purchasing our “hovel” in Casperia and restoring it – the friends we have been making there. Rome is our favorite city in all the world, and a primary requirement in our search for a place was easy day trip proximity to that wonderful city. For the time being ours is our vacation home and casa vacanze, but when (if, these days) we ultimately are able to retire, our plan is to live there four or so months a year and use it as a base from which to launch travels around Europe, Africa and elsewhere—perhaps doing some home swapping in the process.
I agree with the other posters who advise picking your area then looking around. Prices can vary significantly, and if you remodel or restore you are subject to the same risks as elsewhere—bureaucracy, scrupulous versus unscrupulous building contractors, et cetera. We were lucky and found a wonderful contractor, a craftsman, meticulous and honest. He and his wife are now our good friends and we rely heavily on their counsel as we learn more and more about how to travel the new road we have embarked upon.
Most of all, as we inch towards retirement, we have decided we will not stay within our comfort zone and slowly slip away; we will expand our repertoire, challenge our minds and spirits, and enjoy the process as long as we can.
Hey Chris - it just dawned on me that we met you and Meg on Thanksgiving at Larry and Shelly's house! I never put 2 and 2 together until I saw the word "Casperia" in your post! I'm just waiting for the right occasion to make that wonderful dip you all brought! Anyway, just wanted to say hello!
I'll try to be brief (since I could, honestly, go on and on about it!)
As others have said, you do not have to be a resident to purchase property or have a bank account or even a mortgage. We are not residents in Italy - there would be significant income tax implications for us if we were, so needs to be considered and discussed with you accountant in detail. We may decide to be residents (i.e. live there more than 6 months out of the year) at some point in the future when we retire.
You DO, however, have to have residency in order to buy a car...so it really should be a big consideration when looking at locations! (not that you can't rent a car - but just be aware it would be difficult to buy one)
We are not of Italian descent at all ;-) (as Chris and his wife, perhaps in a former life! ;-) ) although we do have dual US/EU citizenship (so would be easier for us to choose to live there at some point.)
I fell in love with Italy when I was backpacking around Europe for the first time at age 18...went back and studied-abroad at Padova in college...and returned to Italy year after year. After I was married, I took my husband and he caught the bug too (kid just gets dragged along for the ride.) We fell in love with our town and it just "fit" what were were looking for really. The day we moved in, our neighbors were over with wine and homemade cheeses and fruit from their land; others arrived with gifts of local ceramics...and my very elderly neighbor came over to make sure we knew how to light out fire correctly - we felt instantly welcomed and often joke that we know more people over there than here. There was not much of a calculated choice when we bought -we just went with out gut and hearts ;-)
p.s. we did not do renovations - our home was restored prior to closing on it. We are, perhaps, looking to take on a renovation project sometimes in the future maybe now that we feel like we're learning the ropes of Italian homeownership.
There will be as many stories of buying a house or living in Italy as their are sunflowers in the Spring. I bought a property over 8 years ago and have had an "interesting" time with it. Lots of problems, but it's still beautiful and I've no regrets, though I've no house on it, either.
No rhyme or reason for me to have done this except that I love the country at many different levels. I've made a community for myself there after making many trips annually. So, if you are so moved, research well. Talk to lots of ex pats and spend a lot of time there. Maybe rent a place in a favorite area for an extended period of time, before committing to purchase anything.......... Buona Fortuna, Cheryl
We inherited, as opposed to buying, so can't touch directly on some of the questions, but wanted to throw in a couple of things.
Doing renovations when my father-in-law first came into possession of what had been his uncle's house was a major effort. Even though half the village was related to my father-in-law, getting work done timely or on cost or with the promised level of quality didn't happen to his American standards (can have a whole other discussion on that topic some day).
Paying utilities and getting notified of local work on utilities gets done through one of my wife's cousins who lives in the village. If we were not connected to someone there and had to depend on the companies and/or commune getting in touch with us here in the US, I have a feeling that this might be a worrisome item.
Again, we are surrounded by relatives in our location, but if we weren't and if we had much of value in our house (we don't) I'd also be very worried about security. I found a stash of porn in our cantina one year which I am guessing came from the village kids using it as a hang-out (door had been forced). The house is very old and has more than enough wood to make it go up quickly, so wasn't that happy with the thought of them maybe also having a smoke while they were going through the magazines.
Not saying that any of these are major negatives when thinking about buying, but not every day of the month per year that we spend at the house is wine and sunsets....sometimes we're standing in line at the commune trying to get someone who isn't very interested to do something. But....we keep going back and we do plan to extend our stays once my wife retires, so you know where my vote would be on the question of doing something permanent in the form of a purchase.
Posts: 728 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 22 May 2006
re: utlities - it's really not a problem to set up direct debit through the bank. The electric company actually sends me my bill to my US address...my water bill I get online and via email and the tax bills we take care of in person. Utilities (once set up) are one of the easier things to work out.
Apropos of Alpinista' post, he is absolutely correct in noting that once you have a place in Italy (or elsewhere, I suppose) your time there is not always pasta, wine and sunsets. There are always aspects of life itsownself that require attention, keeping you from being on perpetual holiday. That said, that is part of what we love about being there, becoming, at least to some extent, a part of the community and the fabric of life there, the good and the not so good aspects (recognizing always that we not native-borne and always will be stranieri). Vacations are usually vacations, but having your own place, wherever, means not always being on vacation. But in our book, it is still wonderful!
Hi, Barb (and Art). Try that recipe. It's one Meg has relied on for years.
Most of all, as we inch towards retirement, we have decided we will not stay within our comfort zone and slowly slip away; we will expand our repertoire, challenge our minds and spirits, and enjoy the process as long as we can.
I love this outlook on life
We just purchased an apartment that is under construction in Gaiole. It is such a wonderful adventure
We decided to buy a place in Tuscany because over the course of a dozen years we had visited several different places in Italy--from Lago Lugano to Siracusa--and we realized on our last couple of trips we kept going back to the same places over and over. The Val d'Orcia spoke to us in a way I really can't explain. So we started our search in the US--looking at internet real estate sites--and within a couple of days the apartment just popped up. I sent the link to my husband and within minutes he wrote back "Let's buy it!" This was a Monday. On Saturday we were in Tuscany looking at the apartment. We made an offer that night and were back home on Sunday. Talk about whirlwind tour! We returned about 6 weeks later for the closing and stayed there for the first time. Everything about it felt right and we are giddy every time we talk about it. The place was completely furnished--even lamps, forks and knives, etc. and our plan is to use it for two vacations a year--likely May and October. We will rent it the rest of the summer months. We paid 179,000 EUR for a 2 bed, 2 bath place on 4 acres with an in-ground pool just south of Pienza. There are a total of five apts. in the beautifully restored farmhouse. It needs no upgrades, which is exactly what we wanted given that we live in the states. I wish you good luck with this endeavor. We are thrilled that we made the jump.
Julie, I, too, had heard thst the law requiring residency to own a car had changed, but haven't followed up on it since we are so far away from being able to stay there enough to have a car. Anyone else out there know anything about this?
Am very willing to be corrected here, but I thought that the law had recently changed and you no longer needed to be a resident to buy a car?
That would be wonderful....but then I'd have to pass the drivers license test, which I hear is a challenge.
When we set up an Italian company (our business was the two year renovation of our property) and the company purchased the car....we got off lucky because we did not have to pass the driver's test! Just a loophole, I guess.
What sense would it makee to change the residency requirement for the car? The residency is for the car not just you. Different regions have different plate rates. AKA Bollo. Things like timing for smog testing is set nationally. If you didn't have residency what rules would govern all these things?
For Anthony in Florence: Yes, the purchase was made in October 2009. All five apartments were sold within about 10 days. The most expensive was 249k EUR. We thought it was a fantastic deal! The agency we used was www.tuscanitas.com.
For me I think the romance of the idea is what gets to people. Of course it works for some. But I can say all my friends that have second homes go much less often than they invisioned.
I could go for the idea of living overseas, but my wife has no interest. Unless I lived there I would never buy a place. Lottery win overrides.
I look forward to the possibility of a month rental in the future. RR
We have a place in Perugia, a little apartment in the centro storico. A big part of doing that was to ensure that we returned regularly. I'm an Italian who grew up in New York, but I need to reconnect a couple of times a year. The advice here is good. It does cost more than you think, especially at the start, with notaio fees, etc. Things settle down after that. I don't get there as much as I'd like, but I do envision spending more time there later. It's easy for us, though--I don't have to go through bureaucratic hoops because I hold Italian citizenship. But all in all, I'd say do it if you can. I love having this parallel existence, with my friends and family, and of landing in Rome, and taking the train or bus home to PG.
New York/Perugia
Posts: 41 | Location: New York and Perugia, Italia | Registered: 21 April 2008
The other factor for me is that ideally I would like to own nothing at my death. No heirs. I'm not sure how i'll deal with my house maybe sell maybe reverse the mortgage etc. RR
Judith & I also considered buying a place in Italy as well but the more we thought about it, the romance does wear off about having a "place".
For example, we had a great little beach house here in FL. It was a 2 hour drive from the house and we fixed up this mobile home (inherited from my grandmother) to be cute and comfy. However, as time progressed, we ended up spending the beach weekends, cleaning it, fixing it and we never did get to the beach much. Needless to say, we sold it as it was cheaper in the long run to RENT something for a time than pay the monthly fees etc to keep it maintained and running.
The same would hold true for a place overseas. Unless you can really spend time there and enjoy it, you'll be spending more over the long haul than if you rented something EXACTLY where you wanted for month or two... and when your done, you pack and go home with no headaches and totally relaxed.
Just another point of view...
Doug
Posts: 2264 | Location: Winter Park, FL | Registered: 18 May 2005
Like you I have had the dream of owning a place in Italy. We all do. The house with the pergola overlooking the vineyard and olive orchard. Sitting out on a summer eve drinking wine from your vineyard.
I know I had it. A little more urban. I wanted to live in the city. Specifically Rome. The dream was 6 months of the year in Rome, 6 months of the year in America. I miss America after 6 months. And I miss Rome after 6 months.
So every Italy trip we'd go, spend some time looking through the wish book (aka real estate booklets) and decide that the only way we were ever going to be able to afford buying anything is if we won the lottery. Weeelllll in a sense we did win the lottery. We made a very good friend who was looking at doing a long term lease in Rome. We sort of tagged along one day with her and discovered our dream place. It wasn't for sale but it was for rent. Our friend agreed to act as our rental agent, caretaker, etc for a percentage of the rentals.
We own a home in Arizona that we rent during the winter to snowbirds. So we are pretty familiar with the short term rental vacationers renting houses/apts/condos/etc. We know where to advertise, how to check people's references, etc.. The question was could we do it in reverse? Rent "our" place in Rome to other tourists but still have it available for us to use particularly in retirement.
Here's my experience to date.
1) The previous resources I had used for renting my place in the US were not effective when dealing with a European property. You need a european based media outlet that attracts other europeans. We finally found a few websites that are generating some renters. By the way, it doesn't hurt to be bi or tri lingual.
2) The goal was to have the italian apartment pay for itself with enough of a hedge to compensate for the slow season. Jan, Feb, March are definitely the slow season in Rome. Even slower than June, July and August in Arizona. This is sort of what we expected and our retirement scenario had us in Rome November through April and Arizona May to October. Which is exactly opposite of how you want to live for the weather but it does make economic sense. Leasing allowed us to test the waters.
3) Leasing didn't commit us to a massive capital investment.
4) Having short term renters means the apartment stays in decent shape. The caretaker cleans it every time we have new tenants. The small nicks and dings, cleaning, small breakage is addressed by the caretaker. When we go to Rome and stay in the apartment we aren't going to be spending all our time painting, repairing, cleaing, etc.. Been there, done that with a lake house as a kid.
I would recommend to anyone considering buying in Italy take a look at a lease instead. Think of it as an engagement - a loooonnnnngggg engagement. If you can stand each other after 5 or 6 or 7 years then you know you can get married. Or in this case you can buy that dream house. Because divorce real estate style gets very very expensive.
What helped me was to picture myself 5, 10 and 15 years in the future with the idea of what I want to be doing, how I would like to spend my time, and so on. That said, it is possible to buy a place not too far from the beach in Abruzzo for 80k euros or so. At that price it is not hard to break even on your costs by renting it out a bit when you are not there. At the end of 10 years you will find yourself with a house in Italy and/or the equivalent $ in the banca. Several Brits in my area have more or less gone this route and none regret their decision, only that they did not do it sooner.
Originally posted by Stefanaccio: What helped me was to picture myself 5, 10 and 15 years in the future with the idea of what I want to be doing, how I would like to spend my time, and so on.
that's good advice, Stefanaccio. When we first decided to move to Italy we knew we would be here full-time, and decided that we wanted to be in a small town where we could get to know the people, learn the language, and not have to get in the car every time we needed milk! We've never regretted our decision.
I know that everyone dreams of that villa out in the country, surrounded by olive trees/vineyards/sunflowers, and that's great for vacation, for weeks at a time, but if you want to LIVE in Italy and get to know the locals, being in a town is what we recommend.
Even in a city as large as Rome, Rome Addict will get to know her neighbors, find 'her' local bar where the barrista will come to know how she likes her espresso, and generally settle into her neighborhood as if it were a little village.
Long time lurker here but this topic has me riveted.
quote:
I would recommend to anyone considering buying in Italy take a look at a lease instead.
This is a really interesting idea. I would never have thought of that but it really makes a lot of sense. One thing that I am wondering about is when a place is being leased on a long term basis, who is responsible for major repairs? Like roof repairs or significant plumbing or heating repairs. Things like that.
Originally posted by mimosa: Long time lurker here but this topic has me riveted.
quote:
I would recommend to anyone considering buying in Italy take a look at a lease instead.
This is a really interesting idea. I would never have thought of that but it really makes a lot of sense. One thing that I am wondering about is when a place is being leased on a long term basis, who is responsible for major repairs? Like roof repairs or significant plumbing or heating repairs. Things like that.
The answer is - it depends. In our case the owner is responsible for structural things like plumbing, heating, roofs, etc.. We have to pay for cosmetics (paint, floor maintenance, most of the interior) and most expensively appliances. His being responsible for those major things did increase our monthly rental. But the apartment (condo) is in a building where the owners share things like roof maintenance, major plumbing, elevator repair.
We already have started establishing "our neighborhood". In 5 short weeks last year the Ensalata Ricci restaurant knows I like the tropical salad without corn, the medical supply place on the corner has fixed my wheelchair twice, and the people at Carpisa (the purse store) know me (and my wallet) VERY well.
Italians form communities. They get to know you, probably know more about you than most americans are comfortable with, but at the same time you become part of the "village". When we were staying on Via Chiavari year after year every March we became part of that community. I didn't even know we were adopted until one day. Somebody parked blocking the ramp at the end of the block where I get up and down the sidewalk with my scooter. The lady who lives upstairs hollared at the driver to not block the ramp. I haven't quite figured out my responsibilities in this organization. Maybe it's to be the stranieri in the sedia rotale? When we figure it out I'll let everybody know.
[quote]We already have started establishing "our neighborhood".
This is what my husband and I love about Italy. Last fall when we purchase our place it was quite amazing how quickly people knew we had bought, especially among the English speaking Europeans. It's just a great adventure to get to know people from all over the world.
On Changes of Law: This is a very important thing as far as many people go, wanting to change their lives and live here in Italy. We're celebrating 10 years here and have loved every minute of it but it is wise to read all the cautionary tales. The residency/purchase of vehicles is no longer a requirement I believe. BUT the Residency rules have changed drastically too. It would be wise to find out all you can before you buy your retirement home if you wish to live here full time. I met a lovely American woman who had just bought an apartment where I live in Sansepolcro, Tuscany. She was in a state of shock as her residency had been knocked back and could only stay in Italy for 3 months a year. She was told she must transfer a large amount of money to a bank in Italy as proof she could support herself. She had a regular income but no hard cash to meet the requirements. The poor dear was in a very difficult position having to return to a country that she had thought she had left, and not knowing what to do with her new apartment. Other English friends are also finding the requirements have changed drastically. Although as British nationals and part of the EU, they can live here, but are being denied residency. Even though they own a house they must transfer cash, provide proof of income, and take out private health insurance. They have effectively lived here for 6 years but have hit the bureaucracy head on and are unhappy about it. But if you want to come here for holidays ... go right ahead. all the best Christine
I met a lovely American woman who had just bought an apartment where I live in Sansepolcro, Tuscany. She was in a state of shock as her residency had been knocked back and could only stay in Italy for 3 months a year. She was told she must transfer a large amount of money to a bank in Italy as proof she could support herself.
Other English friends are also finding the requirements have changed drastically. Although as British nationals and part of the EU, they can live here, but are being denied residency. Even though they own a house they must transfer cash, provide proof of income, and take out private health insurance. They have effectively lived here for 6 years but have hit the bureaucracy head on and are unhappy about it.
Hi Christine, Something about these stories sounds sort of out of place to me though - where these people living here in Italy legally to begin with? If you have proof of income (and it was documented at one point by Italian authorities) why does she need to have the cash in the bank also? Also - I know Italy lets foreigners buy property, and once you own it, you are allowed to live in it. It sounds really strange that they would essentially throw her out of here own house...
Hi Christine, Something about these stories sounds sort of out of place to me though - where these people living here in Italy legally to begin with? If you have proof of income (and it was documented at one point by Italian authorities) why does she need to have the cash in the bank also? Also - I know Italy lets foreigners buy property, and once you own it, you are allowed to live in it. It sounds really strange that they would essentially throw her out of here own house...
For residence you need to prove the means to look after yourself. I forget what the amount per year is but it should be a fraction of what's required for a visa.
Being allowed to buy a home doesn't mean you're allowed into the country. Or allowed to stay once in. Non Italians need to qualify one way or the other. That's a visa for non EU.
Originally posted by Nick z: For residence you need to prove the means to look after yourself. I forget what the amount per year is but it should be a fraction of what's required for a visa.
Right - but did this woman goes as far and buy a house here and not know that? Or did they move the ball on her? We live here on an elect to stay visa, and provide proof of income. We haven't been told there was anything else to prove or made to deposit funds, etc. and nothing has changed in the last 5 years each time we renew our permesso... just wondering what happened in her case.
Something about these stories sounds sort of out of place to me though - where these people living here in Italy legally to begin with? If you have proof of income (and it was documented at one point by Italian authorities) why does she need to have the cash in the bank also? Also - I know Italy lets foreigners buy property, and once you own it, you are allowed to live in it. It sounds really strange that they would essentially throw her out of here own house...
Hi Anthony, I am not an authority but as I understand it most visitors to Italy from outside the EU can get a 3 month visa. To stay longer they need to apply. From what I understand the goal posts have changed and what used to be a simple thing is now being knocked back. Citizens from within the EU can come and go without visas. Many English are actually living here in Italy without the benefits of being residents, using private doctors and going back to the UK to have surgery if they need it. My English friend wants to shift his place of residence from the UK to Italy. As have many other friends here, he had never applied to do this, despite owning a house. He has been knocked back even though he and his partner have property. They can go on living here but not as residents. The American is in a more desperate situation. From what I understand she has been knocked back on the more fundamental permesso di siorgiorno, and is only able to stay for 3 months out of every 12, and has had to return to the States or risk overstaying her visa. As she has gone, I have not found out what the further consequences of her situation is. This being Italy, one office of the questura could interpret changes in the requirements for visa applications differently than another. Also one embassy, differently, etc. I would take these two stories as cautionary tales and if you intend to permanently move to Italy, make as many enquiries before you buy anything. If you are already here and wish to apply for residency I would do so and perhaps consider hiring a consultant. Christine
Right - but did this woman goes as far and buy a house here and not know that? .
The sense of entitlement can be pretty big for some people. Check the threads on the need for an IDP or the need to carry ID. If you have an elective resident visa then you've already got the income levels covered for residence but some people don't. It's possible to move to Italy from the various EU nations on nothing but a whim. They can live in Italy but need to show the relatively low income levels to get residence. I've no idea how anybody that can't hit the income level for residence can afford to pay the bills
Originally posted by Christine W: This being Italy, one office of the questura could interpret changes in the requirements for visa applications differently than another.
Originally posted by Christine W: This being Italy, one office of the questura could interpret changes in the requirements for visa applications differently than another. Also one embassy, differently, etc. I would take these two stories as cautionary tales and if you intend to permanently move to Italy, make as many enquiries before you buy anything. If you are already here and wish to apply for residency I would do so and perhaps consider hiring a consultant. Christine
There is no need for a consultant and the questura has NOTHING to do with Visas. If a non EU member wants to stay in Italy they may do so for 90 days out of any 180 day period as was just said (not 3 months for every 12 months). If they wish to stay longer they need to get a visa from the Italian consulate of their area back in their home country and then once in Italy rthey have to apply for a Permesso di Soggiorno at the questura. For this you need to show proof of a visa and you will probably have to reshow proof of income, proof of health insurance and proof of housing again.
This post has me riveted too, and I'm nowhere near thinking of retirement at this point. (OK, I do thinkabout it.)
Why don't STers get together and buy a small place in Italy, and share the expense, hassle and joys? Four couples (or singles) could go in together and each visit for three months of the year. Or, those with shorter vacations could go in with more people, a sort of timeshare without the fees. That sort of arrangement would be more appealing for me than actually taking up residence. If one of the owners had permanent residence, all the better. Throw a car into the mix.
There are probably websites for that sort of arrangement, I imagine. I thought I'd throw the idea out there for those of us with less time and money
I will admit that I have not read this entire thread but bits and pieces. There seem to be some things being said that leave incomplete understandings and only pieces of the process and complexities.
I suggest that those who are really interested check out Expats in Italy which is a more appropriate venue for these types of questions. There you will find detailed info and explanations. Plus, there are many people there who have bought places in Italy.
For alot of the reasons mentioned above I have decided to sell my apartment in Florence. I never thought that I would leave Italy o my apartament but life leads us to changes.
Anyway, if you do not have family or connections in the place that you "buy" you can be taken to the cleaners by plumbers, etc. and then when you go to your lovely apt you can find everything broken because the people that rented it thru the agency trashed it and the agency if you don't have a good one does not care.
Non residency bills are expensive. You must have a bank account for the bills to be accredited to and if you are not a resident non resident bank accounts are difficult to open and are more expensive. Your personal banker does not exist it is all centralized.
Why spend so much money to be chained to a place if you are not inhabiting it full time?
You can travel to beautiful destinations all over the globe and eat at the Enoteca Pincchiori once a year for the amount of money owning a place. Why own it? For the headache?
Why don't STers get together and buy a small place in Italy, and share the expense, hassle and joys? Four couples (or singles) could go in together and each visit for three months of the year. Or, those with shorter vacations could go in with more people, a sort of timeshare without the fees. That sort of arrangement would be more appealing for me than actually taking up residence. If one of the owners had permanent residence, all the better. Throw a car into the mix.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to Italian law, the families of ALL the owners share in the disposition of the property upon someones death. Though this idea sounds ideal, in reality it could be a legal nightmare.
I've read this one since it started and the more I read and hear, the better the idea to rent or lease for an additional stay. Since our first trip over in 2005, we've seen a lot of changes in the ownership of property and dual citizenship requirements and I think it stems to all the people moving to Italy to live but are not 'contributing' to the financial status of Italy. Most are retired so therefore healthcare becomes an issue, even for EU members. Spain just recently had issues with the Swedes coming to live in Spain and utilizing their healthcare as an EU country which puts the financial burden on Spain, not Sweden. I'm sure the Italian government feels the same way for all outsiders: EU and others.
Let's face it, the economies of a number of EU countries are not good and Italy is one of them so I'm sure more changes will be on the forefront.
This truly is a great thread and has a lot of common sense to it. Thanks to all the ExPats who are contributing!!
Doug
Posts: 2264 | Location: Winter Park, FL | Registered: 18 May 2005
....a land I would like to retire to. 
We have looked at property and found a vast price range from region to region.
But....we keep going back and we do plan to extend our stays once my wife retires, so you know where my vote would be on the question of doing something permanent in the form of a purchase.
