This item may be useful, either as a reminder, or as outright news to some: you must wear pants or a skirt in the Vatican -- according to your gender, too; and it's a good idea to remember that for other churches as well. (Like everyone else, in warm weather I wander around in shorts -- but I carry a rolled up pair of nylon trousers in my camera bag.)
quote:"The information we got was that the dress code only applied when the pope was here," said Becky Haskin, 44, visiting from Fort Worth, Texas, with three friends.
... Wonder where they got their (inaccurate) information?
Posts: 14140 | Location: The Beautiful San Francisco Bay Area | Registered: 06 August 2001
Good Lord- they really thought the dress code only applied when the pope was there?! Who ARE these people?!
I hate to be so judgemental, but it boggles my mind that people can be so stupid about such things. I suppose the fact that this is the second clothing-oriented thread to which I've contributed in as many hours paints a picture of me as obsessed with appearance. So be it, but I do take care to wear culturally appropriate clothing while traveling- clothing that's appropriate to both my own culture and that of the area I'm visiting. A longer skirt or pants, and a shirt covering my shoulders were certainly part of my packed wardrobe when I visited the Vatican- and other churches for that matter. When I was there several years ago, I saw the clothing police refusing entry to quite a few visitors, clothed more scantily in the Roman heat. These people fussed and fumed, and I was terribly embarrassed for them.
I truly feel that to not dress appropriately and worse, to complain about the consequences even if unintended, is disrespectful, selfish, and shameful.
Totally agree with Karin's post; I do believe I saw, May 2002 at Saint Peter's, women entering the basilica in pants, but otherwise properly clad. Definitely no miniskirts.
Posts: 2054 | Location: Suburban Philadelphia | Registered: 08 July 2002
quote:Originally posted by ktravers: Good Lord- they really thought the dress code only applied when the pope was there?! Who ARE these people?!
To start, one of my nieces (a sister's daughter). She showed up to my beloved son's Memorial Mass (New York Summer 1992) wearing a t-shirt, shorts and sandals. Why? Because I asked her mother to please try to dress conservatively for this occasion. And why I asked her that? Because I know her... Well, she didn't come to the church but sent her daughter dressed like if she was going to a BBQ or the beach. If you were terribly embarrased for people that you didn't even know, can you imagine how I felt? The priest let her stay but with the condition that she should keep herself behind a column. She is a professional but no matter how many college degrees someone could obtain, when they are ignorant, resentful and disrespectful, there is nothing you can do. You never know what's going to be next.
"Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza..."
"I sing to life, to its beauty, to each of its wounds and each of its caresses..."
Posts: 1831 | Location: New York, New York | Registered: 21 December 2002
Doesn't this thread take us straight back to 'San Marco is a beach!' - and the consequential point that I, amongst others, made there: if WE (eg 'Slow People') do not help - for want of a better word - in curtailing the excesses of unseemly behaviour in all its various guises, we are in effect condoning it - so we should not 'pass by on the other side' but voice OUR displeasure at the time - yes, it's hard - it's always easier to walk by....except the locals will turn to one another and say each unto each: "What should we expect from 'Americans' but bad manners?" You like that better?
Last week I met up with our wonderful moderator Amy and her family. I brought my daughter along as a mommy and me type day. I tried to show Amy and family all of the more impoortant parts of Siena. As we walked up to the duomo I panicked. My daughter (5 years old) was in shorts and a tank top. Me the preacher of doing things right totally spaced (the heat will do that to you). Luckily I had on my contrada scarf (the winners are able to wear them for however long they like) so I thru that over Gianna's shoulders and no one seemed to mind. It did cover her. I noticed that they are now selling paper shirts (smocks) and pants for those who are not dressed appropriately.
While I do find it offensive when I see people walking into my church (the Duomo) in beach gear, I can't blame them for not knowing. The biggest gift many of the people on this board give is their knowledge to others so teach your children well, if friends are coming over let them know the dress codes and other basics to help them have a better time.
And if worse comes to worse and your brain is fried by the heat then thank the inventor of the paper clothes that they thought of you and your needs
Not happy with this line - can't say about the Duomo in Siena, but at Lucca we have a sign outside - reasonable not offensive size - which graphically states: 'No flash, no drinks, no eats, and no beach wear' - though why it should be really necessary defeats me..., that said one does see tourists flagrantly ignoring it, I seek to ensure they won't ignore ME! Caveat Visitatem ignorantem. ...But then I'm probably just a stupid old buffer
Oh I am not talking about the people who ignore the signs. I mean people who show up dressed inappropriately. The ones who see the sign and go OOPS (and realize they din't know there is a dress code but are willing to fix the problem)! Those are the ones who take the paper clothes and continue to enjoy (albeit wearing an ad saying "hey look at me, I don't know how to dress in churches") I have no patience for those who complain and/or enter anyway!
I saw many folks outside St. Peter's puzzling over the signs signalling the expected dress codes. Simple drawings of bodies wearing shorts and tank tops with a red "X" next to figures wearing short sleeves and longer pants that covered most though not all of the legs. (Now of course I'm kicking myself for not taking a photo!)I joked that what was needed was a few nuns with yardsticks to measure where on the knee the shorts or skirts reached
The vast majority of the people I saw were prepared with coverups on the beastly hot day, though there were some who obviously had no idea.
The most elegant shoulder solution I saw was from a group of Italian women who had tucked hankerchiefs into the spaghetti straps of their silk dresses.
Amy in MA "Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us, or we find it not." --Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posts: 8582 | Location: Newton (outside Boston), MA | Registered: 17 June 2001
I still remember the dress code sign for a lovely chapel in rural Greece. I'm sure the Greek was perfect, but the English informed visitors that they must be "properly pressed."
Posts: 655 | Location: Maine | Registered: 23 November 2002
quote:Originally posted by Carol M: I do believe I saw, May 2002 at Saint Peter's, women entering the basilica in pants
Pants are perfectly acceptable in Church, unless hey are really skin-tight (but this is true for both men and women). You can enter any Italian church with a pair of jeans and a white t-shirt with a big corporate logo. The point in dressing for church is not in being elegant, it is in being decently dressed because you are entering a place of religius worship. It's like taking off your shoes when entering a mosque or, for men, wearing a cap or hat of some kind when entering a sinagogue.
quote:Cristina: My daughter (5 years old) was in shorts and a tank top.
Here in Milano it is prefectly allright for children to enter church with bare shoulders and legs, but I know that the further spouth you go the stricter the rules are. Yet it sounds a bit strange that a 5 years old girl should have covered shoulders and legs in Siena...
By the way, woth this talk of "church dress code" I suddely remeberd a nice sight that I saw last saturday in Milano, near the duomo. A family of three people (mother, father and a teenager daughter) with the two women dressed in what I might call the "informed American tourist uniform": light brown walking shoes, "pinocchietto" trousers (capris: in Italian "capri" is a kind of sandals ^_^), tank tops and a scarf over their shoulders ^_________^
Alice Twain -- – Che peccato, signora: lei ha partorito e suo marito non c’era. – Oh, se è per quello non c’era nemmeno quando sono rimasta incinta! Leo Ortolani, Rat Man, “Il primogenito”
[This message was edited by Alice Twain on 17 July 2003 at 08:08 AM.]
quote:Originally posted by Alice Twain: Here in Milano it is prefectly allright for children to enter church with bare shoulders and legs, but I know that the further spouth you go the stricter the rules are. Yet it sounds a bit strange that a 5 years old girl should have covered shoulders and legs in Siena...
Nobody said anything to me. It was just me being guilty as I am always telling people to dress properly and then I dress my daughter in shorts and a tank top.
quote:Originally posted by ktravers: Good Lord- they really thought the dress code only applied when the pope was there?! Who ARE these people?!
I hate to be so judgemental, but it boggles my mind that people can be so stupid about such things. I suppose the fact that this is the second clothing-oriented thread to which I've contributed in as many hours paints a picture of me as obsessed with appearance. So be it, but I do take care to wear culturally appropriate clothing while traveling- clothing that's appropriate to both my own culture and that of the area I'm visiting. A longer skirt or pants, and a shirt covering my shoulders were certainly part of my packed wardrobe when I visited the Vatican- and other churches for that matter. When I was there several years ago, I saw the clothing police refusing entry to quite a few visitors, clothed more scantily in the Roman heat. These people fussed and fumed, and I was terribly embarrassed for them.
I truly feel that to not dress appropriately and worse, to complain about the consequences even if unintended, is disrespectful, selfish, and shameful.
I have to deal with this every stinkin day. It is absolutely ridiculous. Every guide book for Rome tells you about the dress code at the Basilica, but to no avail.
But, what really bothers me is the fact that the security check point is first. Then you have to walk another 50 meters to the "dress code" check point. Where people get turned around and have to leave the "secure" area and go buy shirts, pants, and scarves. Then go through both check points again. I wish they would just reverse the check points. Put the security one second. So that people get turned away immediately, instead of causing more congestion.
To make it worse, in the past week they have narrowed the gate at the dress code check point and have not made a que. What is the result is a mass of people all trying to squeeze into this little opening from every direction. People pushing and shoving and then the ones who get turned away have to push their way back through and out of the crowd. It is horrible.
Tony Polzer Tour Operator 3 Millennia Tours www.threemillennia.com tony@threemillennia.com
Posts: 1224 | Location: Rome, Italy; Zagreb, Croatia | Registered: 12 February 2003
quote:Originally posted by Smitty: Do you mean I would have to be squished up against wimmin in halter tops, short shorts, and the like?
Having gone to a women's college, and lived since in Cambridge, MA, the term "wimmin" suggests to me a group of females HIGHLY unlikely to ever don halter tops and short shorts to delight the eyes, and any other senses some might engage . Your post made me laugh!
Perhaps you should consider a second career as a vendor of paper clothing, to ensure constant contact with a stream of scantily clad beauties in need of assistance!
I have no interest in sullying myself with crass commercialism. Selling paper clothes? What WOULD mama say?
I prefer crass (albeit decorous) contact with babes who would not give me a second look (unless it was one of mild disgust).
Lord knows I am not up to speed with the various spellings of the other gender, but I might have thought they would be "womyn." I hear some fine skools in the Ivy League have departments devoted to their studies.
(Oh, he hee, please stop me somebody!)
Posts: 479 | Location: Jacksonville, OR US | Registered: 25 February 2003
Its not brain surgery folks, its common courtesy. During Jubileo(spelling?) we saw people in St Peters Square in the most outlandish costumes imaginable trying to get into the church & highly insulted when denied access. If you obey the laws & follow the customs of the country you are visiting why not respect the local religious customs. If you do not you are just plain ignorant! I am not religious, just respectful!
Posts: 1 | Location: FLAGLER BEACH, FLA, USA | Registered: 27 August 2003
Topic Closed
. Your post made me laugh!