Perhaps Cristina or Judith could help to get us started, altho we may be asking a bit early....WE are planning to move to Italy and have seen lists of the various permits and visas we will need for this move. Of course it all sounds a little overwhelming, so we are wondering WHERE do we start? Italian Embassy? Can this be done through the mail, or email? I read something on their site that said the application for one type of visa must be made in person. Also, HOW do we begin this process and WHEN? I know these things takes a LOT of time, and I just want to be prepared..I think I will make a calendar like they suggest for brides, starting at one year (or more) in advance, sort of a month by month things to do now list. BTW, we don't expect to be living in Italy full-time for another 18 months, at least, possible 2 years, maximum. Thanks!

Well, are you both going to be retired by the time you move over? If so you should apply for an extended stay visa. I have to get offline now but will write up the info for you tomorrow morning my time.

You have to apply at the Italian Consulate closest to your house. Every Consulate has different requirements. You can contact the Consulate to have forms faxed to you, but I wouldn't rely on email.

It's a good thing you have so much time. Plan on NOT getting your visas the first time you try - be prepared to go back a few times with whatever the Consulate people find lacking. Be prepared to stamp your feet and if they give you a hard time, ask to see their supervisor. This is one place where smiling and being nice doesn't work! You have time though - so you should (hopefully) be fine.

Go to the Italian Embassy website. No consulate requires more than what is stated there, and some less, plus you can print the forms right off the website. There are also instructions for taking pets. They WILL be discouraging, it is apparently their job. Be firm, stick like nettles, have good answers ready for the way too personal questions they will ask, like why are you leaving your child(ren).

That gets you the visa. Cristina seems to have already written up what you have to do after you get here. The first permesso di soggiorno is for one year, the second 2 years and so on until at last you get them 5 years at a time. I live for the day.

So does this mean we will have to make MULTIPLE trips to DC or NYC or Chicago, or wherever the nearest Embassy is? I went to the Italian Embassy website, found several visas, but none that seemed to be what I (thought) we needed. I think I need someone to hold my hand on this one and speak v..e..r..y s..l..o..w..l..y, per favore! I am definintely overwhelmed by everything that has to be done! thanks for the continuing help!

Some consulates have the requirements on their website, and some don't - they all (strangely) require different things. One thing that I was not prepared for (and was slammed with when I had everything else ready) was that my consulate (San Francisco) wanted a document from the FBI saying I was "clean." I don't know if you have ever tried to contact the FBI - it isn't easy.

Forgive my bad geography, but I just read "A Thousand Days in Venice" and the author talks of her experience going to the consulate in St. Louis which was a table in an insurance office, the wife of the insurance guy was the consulate staff. Maybe you are lucky and that would be your consulate! But I would plan on two trips - just in case. Just plan on spending a few days in whatever city you end up in, that way you can return the next day and pester them until they give you the visa.

When we were emmigrating from Canada to the US, we had to get a certificate from the RCMP saying we were "clean". They told us they take the opportunity to make people pay unpaid parking tickets!!

And dealing with the US Embassy and INS was as time consuming and difficult as what I read about the Italian version. At the INS, if you have a simple question about a form, you have to take a number and wait for three hours in a crowded, air-less, small room before you can speak to an agent.

Now why do different consulates have different requirements?? Aren't they consistent so people won't get confused?

It must be even harder to start a business there. We have a lot of people from China/Vietnam that sell their tourist wares in Waikiki and make good money. It's kinda like a flea market. Do they have immigrants in Italy that do the same? Sorry to digress.

If you gather up the documentation the embassy site requires, you will have all you need. They did not ask me for an FBI file, but a declaration from the state police saying I didn't have a criminal record. That took longer than anything else, needed fingerprints, etc. The report may be sent directly from the police to a designated person.
Most of the docs have to be offered in original as well as copies, but you leave the copies with them.
Go HERE for the elective residence section. The form I believe has the list of documents required. Part of what I had to provide was an address in Italy and a plane ticket. Someone in line in front of me didn't have the ticket with her and had to call her travel agent and have it sent over. E tickets simply wouldn't do.
Just do be aware that even when you show up with everything required they will still try not to give you the visa. I showed the contract for the house I had already bought and it made almost no difference to the person I was working with, who was the chief of the department. The visa arrived 2 days before my flight and I had to take time from the move, drive 2.5 hours each way to pick it up on the days the office is open to foreigners, which is not everyday. THIS IS NOT EASY.

First off, subscribe to The Informer This has tons of info for expats. You may also want to subscribe (free) at Expat Access as they have a time line to follow.

For your consulate:Chicago Consulate is where you need to go. Click on Visa and then Residence or just click through to here

For the Criminal record, the SF consulate says :

Richiesta certificato penale (“criminal record”) per lo Stato della California:

STATE OF CALIFORNIA
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
P.O. Box 903417
SACRAMENTO, CA 94203-4170

So you may want to see if the state of Wisconson's Dept. of Justice will do the criminal check for you.

Decobabe explained pretty much everything you need. Normally, a long stay/elective residence visa can take up to 90 days for approval. The big probablem is that you are not supposed to apply until you are ready to go (or 90 days before).

Although other people have different experiences with the consulate, mine was easy as pie. For me, lots of smiles and allowing the "in need of power" clerks to feel superior helped (I feel). I applied and was given my visa in 3 days.

Since you are pretty much just begining this adventure, your idea about making a "bride's list" is great. I would call the Chicago Consulate and get a feel for them. See how they prefer to work, etc. etc. Don't bother getting the criminal record yet as you need for it to be current with your application. Same with everything else. So strive for a day when you can get all info together and then make your application. Start checking around now for medical insurance but plan on only keeping it for a short while as you will be able to get on the social system here (cost is less than $400 per year). Are you planning on moving furniture?

As for what permits etc. you need, well the visa part is done in the states but the rest are done when you arrive here. Within 8 days of arrival you need to apply for your permesso di soggiorno at your local questura. They give you a receipt and you come back a month later for the original. I'll give you all the info you need for that at a later time. You then need to get your codice fiscale and your residency. You can drive with your American DL PLUS the International Driving Permit for the first year of residency. After that you are required to get an Italian driver's license. This means sitting the written and driving exams. No fun. Now saying this, I know there are a lot of people out there who drive without, just getting an IDP every year. If you feel comfortable with that great (I'm giving up judging people :-( ). The test is a PITA and very very difficult (and takes 6 months from application date to completion).

Once you have your PdS and your Codice Fiscale you can get a bank account. Make sure you do this if only to have your bank pay all of your bills. There is nothing worse than standing in line at the post office with every other person in town trying to pay bills. Once you get your residency you will need to show that to the gas and electric companies as the rates are lower for residents.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help. Sorry for the length.

There is a good description of going for the driver's test in that memoir "In Maremma".

David Leavitt and Mark Mitchell, In Maremma: Life and a House in Southern Tuscany. A beautifully written book full of great information about buying and renovating a farmhouse in southern Tuscany, near Saturnia. Leavitt and Mitchell are a gay couple from the US who lived in Florence for a number of years before buying this house. They are both writers. I didn't like their earlier book about Italy (Italian Pleasures) but this one was great.

I would like to forcefully suggest that anyone considering a move over here first consult John Murphy's website to find out what they need to do. The address is http://www.informer.it and he has a survival guide at http://www.informer.it/index.asp?Page=survivalguide. He is a true guru when it comes to the tangle of Italian regulations...

Thanks Dan!! Great web site - I will add it to our links section.

Oh-oh, Cristina! The health insurance costs 7.5% of worldwide income with a bottom of just under $400.

Well this has certainly been informative, if not DEPRESSING!!! No wonder more people don't do this! I tried to call the Embassy, but in true Italian style, they are only open from 9-12:30. I tried to send them a fax with some additional questions, but of course the fax did not go through! Next I sent it by email, but will follow-up with a phone call tomorrow morning when HOPEFULLY I can talk to a REAL person (mind you, I don't expect them to be a real HELPFUL person!) Also Judith, you have been the first person to give me some hard facts about the health insurance..one person told me it was $100 per person per month, someone else said $100 per person per year, now you say it is based on your income, which seems to make some sense. Looks like we'll be visiting Chicago once or twice sometime in thew future!

I remember reading in one of Nathalie's posts on AOL that she was shocked at the prices of utilities in Italy. She bought a house and moved there last year. Do any of our Italy members have any comments on that?

You should not get depressed about this Barb. If you were a European wanting to retire in the US, you would not be able to. The only way you can get into the US is by marrying someone or a management level job transfer. When we were trying to get into the US, they no longer allowed people in who wanted to start a business, but I have heard they have reopened this category. Our local bookstore owner is from Canada and he bought the bookstore here and employs people - that is how he got here. Us expats in the US always go into details with each other about how we got to be here.

People can come into the US for 6 months at a time and can buy a home, but at any time they can be refused access at the border if the INS people think you are planning to work. People from Canada who retire here, have to go back to Canada every six months.

It is amazing to me that Italy allows people to retire there and go on the health care system.

So, I say keep with it - think how complicated it is in the US to just move between states (new health insurance, drivers tests in some states, different tax codes) - so of course it will be complicated to change countries.

The process is so complicated I still don't have all of it down pat.
The health thing is a percentage, but of what income only the accountant knows for sure. Like anything, that's not a cut and dried sum.
You have to do both taxes every year. Nowadays you can file international returns electronically, but many resources won't allow it. I did a paper return for extension.
I bought international health insurance before I came. It covered only things no government would cover, no drugs and was strict about pre-existing conditions. No bargain. But you may have to have it.
The problem I am still working on is denouncing yourself to many tax authorities because they don't send you bills, you have to handle it, and because Italians think this is ordinary, they don't tell you that.
My real estate agency obtained a codice fiscale for me before I got here so they could turn on the electricity. You need that at every turn.
Electricity is high (+-$90/month, I have a dryer) telephone is staggering. With internet usage on the cheap plan, I spend almost $200 per month and don't call the States much at all. I no longer have a cell phone, because it didn't work out here.
Gas is a killer, too, at about $4 per gallon, so a little car is the norm. The Punto is not considered that small here. An oil change for my teensy car is $70. Finding a 'buon usata' is a lucky break.

Utilities. Great subject. Here is what I pay. Remember I have 2 children and I also am a spoiled brat so I probably use more electricity than most (washer, dryer, a/c, steam cleaner, 2 fridges, etc. etc.).

Electricity: 75 - 80 euro per month
Gas: Around 60 euro per month (average over the year)
Telephone; I pay 59 euro per month for unlimited national calls including internet. With this program (Infostrada Tempo Zero) I also get a 25% discount on calls to the US and 5% on calls to cell phones. . I also have to currently pay a line charge to Telecom but that should change soon. The line fee 13.63 euro per month. International calls come to around 0.12 euro per minute. I think this is pretty good. So on average, my monthly phone bill with 3 hours of international calls and however many other calls I want to make is around 90 euro. Get rid of the US calls and it is 72 euro per month. (Judith, do you have DSL? or some other plan for those high rates?)

Property taxes are great here. We are paying 250 euro per year.

I guess my friends who have socialized medicine had accountants that worked out things for them as they all pay 700.000 lire per year. In Italy it is not what you know but who.

Judith, I am a bit confused on your saying that you need to file taxes in both countries. My income is from the states so I only pay US taxes. If I was getting a paycheck here that would be different but since I don't make money here, I don't need to file here.

I hope this helps.

Just found out that we will need to go to DETROIT in order to apply for our visas! At least when I thought I had to go to Chicago I was reasonably certain we could make a mini- vacation out of it, but DETROIT!!?? Also, the information on the website says NOTHING about a plane ticket, so I guess I'll have to try to get more info on the necessary paperwork. AS for taxes, we were told we only had to pay taxes in ONE country, and if we earned NO income in Italy (which we won't) then all we have to file is a US tax form. As for the drivers license, should we just keep up our US ones, using someone a US address and getting the IDL? And the health insurance part really has me confused...I was thinking we could keep up our insurance from the PO when we retire, and keep it for a year or whatever, till we found out a little more about the healthcare program in Italy, but now I am realizing, DUH!!! ,Blue Cross/Blue Shield probably won't work in Italy!! If we have to show proof of Insurance, how does one find (I'm not even going to ask about the AFFORD part) medical insurance for this situation?

I am an American...living here since 1984, It took me three trips to the SF office to get my work visa ( independent work permit, which I here is almost impossible to get anymore)

I am an American business working abroad and pay income social security but not taxes....up to a certain level..

( like guys working for Standard Oil in Saudi Arabia)

I own a house and also rent a space where I work. For rental property, the utilites are double. If you get residency and the bills in your name, you can get the lower rates.If your landlord will let you!
There are a zillion catch 22's here...

I kept my citizenship, and have a private insurance policy which covers me in Italy and in America.I got the insurance here in Italy, much cheaper than in the states..under $1,000 a year. I got the policy over 15 years ago, when I was still young.

If I hadn't married an Italian..I would suggest staying here 6 months a year and leaving when it is too hot..or too cold....

I don't earn income, but have investments on both sides therefore file both. Any taxes I pay in Italy I get credit for in the US. How could you pay 7.5% on worldwide income and not report the income? Italy wants to see your US return at any rate.
I am seeing a commercialista shortly and hope it will all be straight then. I overpaid the US due to an arithmetic error, so I'm looking forward to a return, anyway. I find the whole thing stunningly difficult...health contribuito, trash, water, property...the list goes on and on, plus you pay 20% IVA on everything you buy.

Moving this topic to the FAQ section.