I know that this topic has probably been discussed to death but please humour me . My husband has a real problem with paying the charges imposed by the banks for ATM use as well as the higher exchange rate. We are able to get a favorable exchange on our money here at home through a money exchange, to the tune of 300.00 on 10,000.00. So what to do...carry cash in money belts, use travelers checks which we can get at no charge or open an account at an Italian Bank and use ATM's (but eliminating the fee from our home bank and the cost of unfavorable exchange rates). My feeling is to forget the trouble and just use our ATM but he is a business man and not so inclined to throw money away. This topic has escalated into a few heated discussions in the past few weeks so I thought I best go to the experts for advice.
Regards,
Laurie

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kim,

Carrying around travelers checks, these days, is like carrying around Fred Flinstone stone dollars. And NO wise Italian traveler carries around large quantities of cash.

I mean, what are we talking about here? A grand total of $20 in service fees to have a convenient, hassle-free trip without bank lines? I'd pay double that.

Remind your husband that vacations are about splurging.

R.G.

If time = money, your husband should understand when you tell him about the good 45 min. to an hour it takes, plus all the hassle, every time you try to cash a traveller's check! NO stores will take them (in our experience), and we even had a hard time finding BANKS that would take them in some towns! "No, no, you must go to Banco di Roma..." And we had EURO traveller's checks, not even dollars--same hassle!

THEN when you get there, sometimes they only let you cash two checks, so if you need more cash than that, BOTH of you have to line up, or come back later. Or pay usurious commissions at private currency exchange shops. Ugh. NEVER AGAIN. NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS. Gee, can you tell that the frustration is still with me?!

Next time, it's ATM's all the way.
Sonia
p.s. did I mention all the form-filling-out in triplicate and passport-passing-about that you do while you're at the bank? Some unfortunate bank teller in Agropoli now practically knows how often I trim my nails....

Web site administrator,
Hotel Il Bargellino, Florence
and
Mulino dell'Opera, near Lucca

On our recent trip to Italy, I brought a small amount of Eruo's for immediate use. But for the major part of the trip I used my ATM card in Rome, Tuscany and Lucca with absolutely no difficulty. However, my Mom, who brought traveler's checks, had to wait almost 30 minutes at the bank in order to get cash.

ATM is the only way to go.

JoanneW

Laurie, why don't you ask your bank if they will increase your maximum withdrawal from an ATM. My max is about $350 so I just get out as much as I can at one time. The exchange rate is good at Italian ATMs. I do like to bring a little cash though, in case of, say, a bank strike.

If I was carrying vast amounts of cash I would be in constant fear something was going to happen to it.

Venice, like falling to the bottom of a turquoise fishbowl...

Your husband has the same philosophy as mine. We always
acquire some lira (now euro) in the States and use a
combination of traveler's checks and credit cards for our
trip. We have never had any problem converting the traveler's checks at Italian hotels. In fact, our Rome
hotel has asked us to send a deposit in traveler's checks
for our trip this fall. I don't doubt the hardship of converting the checks at Italian banks - they are not known for their service.

Last fall in Umbria we used cash and credit cards. After
reaching Rome, we converted some traveler's checks at our
hotel, but most purchases were by credit card. I think it
depends entirely on where you will be and your access to
ATM machines. Several in our group were constantly trying
to find an ATM in the small cities in Umbria. I agree with
the advice to increase your withdrawal amount, should you
decide to go the ATM route.

I can only reiterate what others have said---most emphatically do NOT take Traveler's Checks! NO NO NO NO NO!! We had the same experience as Sonia. We did not find one store, one restaurant, or one hotel who would take them even though they were in Euros. I was ready to write to Amex and complain when we returned home (don't they advertise "accepted like cash"?) We ended up having to go to the Amex office in Florence to dump them.

We never had any trouble with ATM's and found ATM's in every town (granted we didn't look in the smallest towns.) I had called my bank (Chase) before I left and they told me I had a $1000 daily limit so that was not a problem. I also paid no additional fee due to having "Select Banking"; however, the exchange rate wasn't great...or perhaps it was the fee imposed by the Italian side; it seemed to cost approximately $5 per hundred (i.e., I took out 200 euros and was billed about 209, etc. This was about when the Euro was one-to-one with the dollar.

Still, well worth it for the convenience. Between ATM and credit cards we were fine. We brought $100 in Euros from home just to have enough for the water taxi in Venice when we arrived!

Janet

First of all Laurie, I DO understand you husband's frustration..I am extrememly tight with my money and want it to go as far as possible. That being said, let me suggest a different ploy....IF you have the cash for your vacation in hand, which I assume you do if you are considering buying travellers checks, then just deposit that money in your checking account, and get a Mastercard or Visa debit card. Then, in Italy, you just go to the ATM and follow the procedure to get a cash advance..they will give you a PIN # with the card, and this way, you are getting out YOUR money with no cash advance fees! This is how it worked for us, you may want to check with your bank or credit union to make sure that this is the way their card works. Also be sure to check on the daily limit...ours was mistakenly set to $100 one time, and it made things pretty scary for a while! Also, check with different credit cards you may have about their fees...now maybe our cards are all charging us this "conversion" fee, but only one card lists it as a seperate fee, which really irritates me...I would rather just have it all rolled into the listed cost of an item! And, as RG pointed out, this is your vacation! Have fun!!!

In keeping with the "full disclosure" laws, I must tell you that our credit union does charge a $1 monthly fee for our Mastercard debit card.

OK, I am the only one relaying my satisfactory use of traveler's checks and since my trip is coming up I am a bit concerned. I was in Italy in the late spring of 2000 and the fall of 2001 - no problem with converting traveler's checks in our hotels, as I said. I have never tried to pay at a store or restaurant with them - usually credit card, so we can keep on getting Skymile points to satisfy my Italy addiction.

Has something happened in Italy of late to cause the
traveler's check to go out of favor with merchants? If so,
I need to heed your advice and make alternate plans for
our October trip.

I don't like having a lot of cash on me, nor do I like the prospect of relying on locating an ATM for multiple withdrawals. But if I must convert, I will.

We have visited Italy seven times in the last three plus years. The first few times we took a few hundred dollars in travellers checks. We usually cashed them back home after the trip. We have never experienced a problem greater than an atm occasionally out of money or out of order. There's always another one nearby.

As a (semi-retired) international banker, I would like to bring my two cents worth in this disputed issue, with the knowledge that people don't like banks so much.

So:

1. T/Cs are "yesterday", "passe". You have to find an open bank, you pay commission when you buy them, you may have to pay again commission when you cash them, everybody wrinkle their noses when they see them because it costs the merchant, the hotel, etc., to cash them. These days, T/Cs are a bane.

2. ATMs are the best thing for travellers since the wheel was invented, followed by carts, trains, etc.. They (the ATMs!) are everywhere, are reliable and RATES of EXCHANGE are often better than those in the bank. Just be careful where you are when you withdraw from ATMs; those inside the building of a bank are best. Anyway, you always have to be aware where you are!

3. I have yet to see a Money Changer giving better rates than in a bank, at an ATM or a credit card company.

4. A few hundred Euros with you, in a well protected wallet or money belt will give you the time to get adjusted to the new environment, pay tolls, get something to eat or drink, buy a map, etc. Consider it a startup investment.

5. Since Euros have such circulation nowadays, if you have some left at the end of the trip, keep them for the next one!

Awaiting the chorus of anti-bank sentiment, but quite solid in what I know, signing off,

Dor

Traveler's Cheques are useless and worse, a remnant of the past, that you pay a hefty premium for. When my parents slow-traveled from Pakistan to the US in four months many years ago, they had special bank lines of credit in corresponding banks in their l arger transit cities. All that is gone.

Good credit card gets you the interbank rate. Don't lose it.

ATM card on a good bank (not some obscure suburban 2-office outfit).

Cash. Never leave home without it. Always, always carry actual currency of the countries of destination (and intermediate airport, if any), about $75 per person. You never know what will happen. Credit card bank communication lines down, local currency exchange office closed or on strike, etc.

The commissions offered by banks Stateside are outrageous, however, often on the order of 7-8%; so exchange as little as possible, just enough for this emergency cushion.

Bill
Gazetteer of Italy]

PS: $300 on $10,000 is higher by far than the rates for changing actual cash in far smaller amounts at the machines in downtown Paris around the Opéra; and probably in major cities elsewhere, including Italy.

If you must change money, take it overseas in dollars, change it there. (There is always exchange fluctuation risk, but that operates no matter what -- including if you change $10,000 Stateside and the euro falls 3% during your trip, which is quite within the range of fluctuation these days.)

Bill
Gazetteer of Italy [›

[This message was edited by Bill Thayer on August 15, 2002 at 03:12 PM.]

As long as we're on this subject, let me add that we found that only the largest shops or fanciest restaurants take American Express, even if they take credit cards. Many times our Amex card was handed back to us. So be sure to have another card--MasterCard or VISA--in addition to an Amex card.

Janet

I am from Alabama, not from Missouri, but on somethings I
can have a "show me" attitude. I will take my usual
combo of American Express TC's, cash and credit cards AND a newly acquired ATM card. I must also admit that I do not use ATM's at home - I live in a small town and can write a check anywhere without ID - no need to convert to "new" technology. I don't have an aversion to ATM's - they simply
have not become a necessity for me.

Last fall, several people in our group used ATM's, others
the TC and credit card route. Except that the ATM users
seemed always in need of finding a machine, I noticed no
advantage of one means over another. It is obvious that
many have had bad experiences with TC's, but thankfully I
have not.

I always bring a few hundred dollars in Euro with me and then use ATMs the whole way. We take out the maximum on the ATM and we have two different accounts in case something happened on one. Both are debit card type of accounts - not cash advances on credit cards. We pay for most things, except hotels, with cash.

Eat one less meal out while on your trip (cook at your vacation rental instead) and that will make up for any bank charges.

Pauline from Slow Travelers

Bill, I do have to disagree with your warning about the small bank. My experience is that there is a great advantage to using a small company where you can be a real person to them. What counts is the electronic networks the bank participates in. You know, those symbols on the backs of the cards -- Cirus, Star, etc.
I have several accounts with a local credit union. Home mortgage, two savings accounts, AND a special checking account that's only purpose is for traveling. Because of my other accounts at this credit union, I have negotiated with them to waive ATM fees when I travel. (of course, I still have to pay the fee charged by the Italian bank that owns the ATM machine)
I also have a $500.00 daily withdrawal limit. And I have two cards so that if one should accidentally get demagnatized, I have a backup.
I put my budgeted travel money in that account. And that is what I travel on. I never expect to overdraw the account, but if I do, they will automatically honor the withdrawal and transfer money from one of my savings accounts.
I've been all over Umbria with this card and I've always found an ATM when I've needed one. And the ATMs have always accepted my card.
If I had an emergency like having my wallet stolen, my credit union would not hesitate to wire money to me immediately.
Do you think this kind of service has anything to do with the "David's Buns" mouse pads I brought back to them a few years ago? <grin>

Deborah Horn
-----------------------------------
Marketing Solutions for Health Care

Pauline, I think you MAY cheating yourself by getting

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a few hundred dollars in Euro

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You will pay a much higher rate in the US for those euro...I think maybe $100 per person is MORE than enough to get you started....Bill suggested $75 per person, I think. And to respond to Janet's comment that those people using ATM's were always looking for a machine, yes, I know what you mean, but I think that as we come to realize that there ARE ATM's EVERYWHERE now, we will become a little less obsessive about always looking for the machines! they really ARE everywhere!

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Good credit card gets you the interbank rate.

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Not any more! Most credit cards have changed policies in the last year. Our Visa card is now charging 3-4% over the rate I can exchange currency or traveler's checks for at our local bank. There has been quite alot in the American press about this. However, credit cards are still better than the exchange rates at the little store front money exchange stores in most cities here.

There was a discussion a few months ago here about ATM machines and the daily amount one can draw out. The maximum daily amount is solely at the discrection of your home bank in the USA. You can raise your limit if you ask. Some of the ATM machines here now have a transaction limit of 800 euro per day, but if your limit from your USA bank is higher, you simply make two transactions each day.

Bill & Patty Sutherland
Tuscan Women Cook
Montefollonico, Italy

Our last trip to Italy (May 2002) We started out with $300 in Euro bought from our local AMEX office, and found ATMs in even the small cities. We charged whatever we could on AMEX (miles) and when we returned we had all the receipts (whew) and paid off the Amex bill with a check from the account we use to save up the trip money ( we were short!) A vacation is not about saving every penny....my wife even made me spring for a gondola ride ( I guess,I am a curmugeon)
But as usual she is right...(and she is not looking over my shoulder as I write this)


Daniel and Priscilla in Fort Lauderdale

Now I'm curious...Laurie, what do you think? What does your beloved husband think? Have we been of any help, or are you more confused that ever? Being the miser that I am, Art loves to remind me how he's had to "force" me to have fun during these last 12 years, and I have to admit he's been right! If it had been left up to me, we probably would have gone on only HALF the trips we went on, maybe less. I always believed that you saved up for a trip FIRST, and then you went. Art's theory is "go now, pay later", and I must admit, he was/is right! We aren't in debt, all the fabulous trips we took somehow got paid for without driving us to the poorhouse, and we have SO many wonderful memories! So just go, enjoy yourselves and let the money work itself out later! I don't mean to sound cavalier about other peole's money, only to suggest that maybe worrying about a 2% surcharge or poor exchange rate is simply a waste of the time that you should be enjoying!

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Bill, I do have to disagree with your warning about the small bank. My experience is that there is a great advantage to using a small company where you can be a real person to them. What counts is the electronic networks the bank participates in.

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Deborah is right on all counts; I was speaking very loosely. For writing cheques though (as one very occasionally does have to), it's best to be able to write them on a bank that has a corresponding Italian bank. For ATM's, yes anything on a good network will do.

As for this,

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Good credit card gets you the interbank rate.

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Not any more

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drat and double-drat. Back to the drawing-board for next stay.

Bill
Gazetteer of Italy T