Looking for help from this group of wise and experienced Italy travelers. Weâre two couples who are going to Italy May 27-June 8 (Round trip Florence). As of now, we are narrowing our time to Tuscany, Umbria and the lakes regions. Weâre really not all that interested in the bigger cities (this trip) and museums (weâll spend 3 more days in Paris indulging in that pleasure). Hill-top towns, beautiful scenery, some hiking (not too strenuous),quaint towns, and GREAT food are tops on our list. In the states we enjoy B&Bâs and look to that option in Italy (agritourismoâs & small family-run hotels in quaint towns). Some non-touristy shopping (including markets-Arezzo?)Using search Iâve found much help here and elsewhere on the web, but so much that itâs almost overwhelming. How long would you suggest for each area? What are the âdo not missâ spots ? Best places to stay (not overly expensive)?We expect to rent a car for most of the trip. We are thinking of going to Como by train, unless we find that some drives further north from there need to be part of this trip. Any help here would be greatly appreciated. By the way, my wifeâs a vegetarian. Any experience here would be helpful as well.
Here's my opinion. May 27 - June 8 looks like about 11 or 12 nights to me. I suggest you rent an apartment our small house for an entire week in either Tuscany or Umbria -- you decide which. From the home base you establish you'll have plentiful choices of great drives, hikes, hilltowns etc to fill your time. Then go up to the lakes for the the other few days. Don't expect to "do" Tuscany and Umbria in 9 days. I think you'd be better served to concentrate in one area and go back to other places some other time. That's what Slow Travel is about and most of us around here are oriented towards traveling along those lines.
As far as where to chose in Tuscany or Umbria, you can't go wrong. Think about what kind of scenery you want to be in. Much of Umbria is more mountainous than Tuscany, more forested. Pauline frequently recommends either staying in southern Tuscany -- in the vicinity of Pienza, Montalcino etc. or in Chianti. I love both of these areas. In the Crete Senese, in southern Tuscany, the landscape is frequently more like a moonscape -- quite open, frequently more brown than green and quite stunning. Other possibilities are the area near Panicale in Umbria, closer to Florence near San Casciano, eastern Tuscany near Cortona or Arezzo, somewhere in central Umbria near Montefalco or Spello, with good access to places like Assisi and Orvieto, the area around San Gimignano..... Depends upon what appeals to you.
As far as being a vegetarian, do a search on the message board using vegetarian as a search word and it'll bring up many threads where vegetarian issues as well as specific restaurants and shops catering to vegetarians can be found. Since Pauline and Steve primarily eat vegetarian and macrobiotic food, there's also lots of info on the SlowTrav site -- not necessarily organized that way, but in the restaurant section there's lots of stuff to read.
David, usually in NYC
Posts: 4890 | Location: New York City | Registered: 15 June 2001
May 27 2003 is a Tuesday. Since the majority (by far) of rentals for houses or apartment require a Saturday-Saturday stay, I suggest you go to the lake district first -- fly into Milan if you can.Then do your week rental beginning that Saturday in Tuscany/Umbria. Your date to fly home is a Saturday, so where you depart from and the time of day you depart will dictate whether you can actually stay at the rental until Saturday morning or have to leave on Friday.
There are increasingly websites that list specific vegetarian restaurants all over the world. I suggest a Google search for the areas you will be in. It's really not a problem in Italy as there as so many pastas with mushrooms or tomatoes or vegetables, vegetable side dishes, vegetable soups.
SALLY WATKINS, Certified Travel Counselor sally@century-tvl.com www.sallywatkins.com My business depends on referrals - please tell someone today!
Yes, there's a terrific amount of information out there now, some of it accurate: as David says, the burden is on you to know yourself well enough to match place with tastes. If you can't figure out the match because, logically, you don't know Umbria and Tuscany, then, since scenery nice towns and pleasant walking are pretty much everywhere, let us know in a bit more detail what appeals to you: shopping for clothes or ceramics; remoter places, pine forests or farmland; cool or warmer; antiquity, the Middle Ages, the Renaissance, or it's all the same to you; popular festivals or no you wouldn't be caught dead in one -- etc. We can sort it out.
You mentioned cost. Tuscany, especially "iconic" Tuscany (Florence and Chianti), will usually be more expensive than Umbria, though not inordinately. But agriturismi are almost never expensive, so put your mind at rest on that score. They do vary tremendously, but in ways that I don't think it is possible to tell from the Web -- and of most, there is no trace online. Agriturismi with less business won't mind it at all that you choose to stay 6 days or 9, or start your stay on a Thursday. There are reviews of a few on the main Italy section of this site.
I am curious if you actaually have your tickets reserved for Florence--there are not many flights into there. The reason I ask is that I agree with Sally to start at the Lakes. Of course, arriving at Milan would facilitate that.
I also agree that one renting a place for one week makes good sense. I would locate near Montepulciano or Pienza as an ideal base for day trips. I would look at the rental reviews on this site first, then take a look at Tuscan House and Tuscany.net for a wide choice of options.
BOB THE NAVIGATOR blittle@net-magic.net
Posts: 1852 | Location: Chapel Hill NC | Registered: 25 October 2001
You don't say, but it sounds as though you are not all that familiar with either area. If that's the case, I would recommend basing yourselves in the southern part of the Siena province of Tuscany, in the country, but not too far from an A-1 entrance, so you can really scoot around. Somewhere around the La Foce area would be great, putting you within spitting dictance of Montepulciano, Pienza, Montechello, Bango Vignoni, Montalcino, Siena, Cortona -- but also 15 minutes from the A-1, so you scan scoot down to Orvieto (don't miss the church there; don't miss the town). Monte San Savino is another good area -- cute town, A-1 right down the hill.
As you start to get farther north, Umbria becomes quite far; if you go farther south you might miss some Tuscan highlights. This seems, to me, to be the best of both worlds.
R.G.
Posts: 326 | Location: @##$@!! Los Angeles | Registered: 19 March 2002
I currently have a British visitor. She's never been here before and wanted to get a look at hilltowns and the countryside. Yesterday we did a big loop tour, starting from Citta` di Castello, where I live. We drove through Trestina, where I has an appointment, so that decided our route, but then we went to Cortona via San Leo, incredible views! From Cortona we dropped down to the N-S road to Castiglione del Lago, where we lunched, walked and looked unsuccessfully for a wine Brian knows. We left Castliglione del Lago for Panicale, and then on to Paciano, and then cut across to Perugia. From Perugia we took the highway to Assisi, very pretty as twilight came on, but we unfortunately missed the 7 PM closing of the cathedral. Instead we sat in a little Piazza not far from Santa Chiara and watched the sun go down. This is not a recommended slow travel day, but is meant to show you some relationships. Any of the towns nearish to Cortona or around the lake would have made all these towns more accessible. Southern Tuscany and central/north Umbria are contiguous and fairly compact, so pick the nicest place and the best buy and you should have a lovely time. She thinks of what she has seen so far that Panicale would be where she'd stay, but she wouldn't skip anything we saw, and of course we did not go anywhere in Tuscany except Cortona.
Posts: 2771 | Location: Umbria | Registered: 13 September 2001
Your advice is excellent. We will be flying RT (from Paris)Florence. Our original thought was to finish at Lake Como because we would do less sight-seeing and "relax" more. Since there is another couple with us,we are trying to be sensitive to their desires. We have travelled with them before and generally agree on the same things. We enjoy "San Diego" in the springtime weather. Not too hot and cooler at night.Love both the mountains and the beautiful rolling hills that seem so beautiful in pictures of Umbria and Tuscany. In the states we try and stay at B&B's and understand how a great one can help make a trip. The ladies,especially,love to shop in nice stores (not the fancy clothing shops) and are hoping to get some pottery, olive oil,etc. I think that they love to browse as much as actually buy anything. A small local festival appeals more to us than 10,000 tourists packed into a small area. I,especially,want the local feel of an area. While we expect parts of the trip to be in popular tourists areas (after all,there's a reason why they're popular),we hope to elliminate the "traps" and have some time with locals. Thank you so much for your help,this is easily the best source for wise info (re.Italy)we have found.
quote:Originally posted by decobabe: ... Castiglione del Lago, where we lunched, walked and looked unsuccessfully for a wine Brian knows...
Oh dear did the man not have any of his wine left? Sorry to hear that.
Regading scale, here's what we did on two easy days from San Fatucchio in Umbria (near the lake):
Fri 7th Pienza for breakfast, Montelcino for lunch at 'La Sciame', via ricasoli 9, Anchovies with chopped parsley, oil and chili. Bistecca di maiale, or 'pork chop' which was served simply on the plate, but was delicious. Ruth said it was shaped like a walled town, looked far too much for her, but she took great pleasure in slowly cutting away at the walls. E28 lunch for 2. Drive down to L'Abbazia di Sant'Antimo <www.antimo.it>. Returning home we made the mistake of going through Chianciano Terme. Pauline has written, "This is a large and busy spa town. There are several spa resorts. We have not stopped here - only driven through. It would be worth parking and exploring. I have heard there are some very good shops - because of all the visitors that come and stay for the spa treatment." Plonked where it is this town was a surprise. The brandname stores and fastfood outlets seemed to us to be a weird outpost of globalised commercialism out of place right in the middle of the otherwise delightful south Tuscan countryside.
Sat 8th Drive to southern Tuscany again: Montechiello. Walk around, take in coffee. Montefollonico: lunch at 'Il Botteghino', I had a great 'pici al chingiale', E30 per tre persone. Dinner at home - pasta con piselli, prosciutto, funghi e tomate, bocconcini salad, e insalate verde grande,torte pasquale al griglia con fragole e panna, e biscotti e moscato passito di pantelleria.
We rented a place in Umbria for UKP220/week.
Posts: 149 | Location: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: 05 November 2001
quote: The ladies,especially,love to shop in nice stores (not the fancy clothing shops)
We "assume" you haven't been to the "factory" stores here. They are not like the ones you see in the USA. Just below Como is Giorgio Armani's outlet - incredible merchandise and prices. If you're there near any of the fashion weeks, you won't believe the inventory.
South of Florence are Gucci, Prada, Bottega, Loro Piana, etc. Not your typical "discount" places.
quote: Montefollonico: lunch at 'Il Botteghino', I had a great 'pici al chingiale', E30 per tre persone
For 10 euro per person, you must have eaten several courses.
I had my birthday day there recently and the staff at IL Botteghino was so proud of themselves because they had found out about it and made a delicious cake for me. Sweet people - great local place.
Can I recommend the Country House Montali in Umbria, It's an award winning Italian run vegetarian hotel and restaurant and they even do cookery courses. We featured it in the magazine (www.italymag.co.uk) in our second issue and the owner Alberto speaks excellent English (and about every other known language!) The location is stunning too. Good luck and as a permanent resident of Umbria for the past eight years, I agree with the previous correspondent who said you can't do it in nine days, but it would be nice to visit Lake Trasimeno, Paciano (award winning medieval village), Spello, Cortona, Montepulciano (over the border) and Assisi.
Jabez, you seem to have hills and higher cool places a bit more in mind; and places that are neither totally remote nor very crowded. Based on that -- and bear in mind that of Tuscany I can say very little useful, and leave it to the experts -- for Umbria, I would recommend, in order:
1. The Valnerina; which is the valley of the Nera above Terni. It is cool, relatively untraveled but the area that the Umbrians themselves consider the most beautiful part of Umbria, and it includes two of the most handsome churches in the region, at S. Pietro in Valle (comune of Ferentillo, with other striking scenery and attractions by the way) and Castel S. Felice (comune of S. Anatolia di Narco). The area can be covered without undue rush in 2-3 days; there are a lot of agriturismi, and the 17th-century annex of S. Pietro in Valle is now a high-luxury but very low-key hotel. Gastronomically, the area is trout and truffles. Â Â Â I'm placing it first on my list despite its distance from Tuscany. Remember that all of Umbria is about 2/3 the size of Connecticut, of US states only Delaware and Rhode Island are smaller; so that driving distances are not that great, and the roads are good.
2. Norcia, not very far off from the Valnerina; but farther into the interior of Italy an d farther from Tuscany, else I would have put it first. Very clean mountain air, beautiful and interesting town, known thruout Umbria as one of the best places to eat: sausages, game, hams, etc. and the inevitable truffles. The hometown of St. Benedict, whose (maybe) house is still to be seen in the basement of his church.
Both the Valnerina and the area around Norcia are prime walking country, the Norcia area being flatter unless you get ambitious.
3. The area around Citerna, Monte S. Maria Tiberina and Monterchi (this last across the border into Tuscany). For a driver Città di Castello is close: it's an often neglected but attractive medieval town, yet one of the most lively commercial centers in Umbria. It also boasts, if very discretely in a quiet well-done museum, one of the world's great treasures from Antiquity, the Canoscio hoard: a collection of late Antique silver.
4. Gubbio. A very striking medieval town yet with important Roman remains. Restaurants, comfortable hotels; tourism yes, but not that much because somewhat out of the way for many. The surroundings are somewhat less good for walking, and a driving note: the road SW towards Perugia, according to the Corriere dell' Umbria, is the most dangerous in Umbria. I would place Gubbio higher on the list if it were not so far East, and if it had mo re attractions nearby, although the road N up to Acqualagna is quite beautiful and cool, with nice towns; and the Abbey of Vallingegno about 15km S of Gubbio looks like a rather nice agriturismo (of which I have no personal experience, though).
quote:It also boasts, if very discretely in a quiet well-done museum, one of the world's great treasures from Antiquity, the Canoscio hoard: a collection of late Antique silver.
Actually, all the hoard is together in one display cabinet, so I think that ought to be "discreetly". (Sorry: the spelling police are everywhere ) And the museum (Museo del Duomo) also contains an absolutely gorgeous silver and gilt altarpiece from the 12th century. Finally, don't on any account miss lunch at Amici Miei.
Jonathan
Posts: 2924 | Location: Stroud, UK | Registered: 18 November 2001
Topic Closed
) And the museum (Museo del Duomo) also contains an absolutely gorgeous silver and gilt altarpiece from the 12th century. Finally, don't on any account miss lunch at Amici Miei.
