Hello, everyone
As has been stated many times, thank you for your valuable insight and information. My sister and I are planning a first time trip to Italy with our daughters (ages 22, 25) from May 26, 2005 to June 12. We will be flying in and out of Rome. As I have been a lurker since July, I have read many trip reports, reviews and message board questions. I think that our plans are overly ambitious but would like your suggestions. We plan to spend 2 days in Rome, take train to Florence for 2 and a half days then rent a car there and tour Tuscany and Umbria. Several requisits are 3 cooking lessons (for less than $100.00 each person), 2 wine tours (no problem finding these). We would love to hear some "live" music performed somewhere. Is the outlet south of Florence worth stopping at for our daughters? One dilemma is whether to stay in the Chianti area for 2 days and drive a loop including Siena or base selves out of Siena and do the same. If in Radda, for example, can you "bus it" to Siena? If using Roberto tour guide for Siena, could he hook us up with a reasonably priced cooking experience? Frankly, I am not looking forward to driving the Bermuda Triangle, but you all have given great directions. Second stop would be for 5 days outside of Montepulciano to visit Abbadia di Maggiore and S'Antimo, among other places. I have read about the cooking lessons with Cristina at La Ghiandaia Agriturismo near Sarteano but dont have a contact for her. WE have our place to stay picked out. Last stop for remaining 3-4 days is Umbertide with possible trips to Perugia (chocolate tour), 3rd cooking lesson somewhere around here, and some smaller communities for touring. We would leave the car in Chiusi, take train to Rome, spend another day and one night and fly out. WE want enough balance for fun for 2 young women while also enjoying Italy's charm in smaller communities. This should add up to about 16 actual sight-seeing days. I would like to get a cooking lesson recommendation in Umbertide. I feel like I already know you, thanks again for any advice for a newcomer.

I'll be the first to say too much.I personally don't care for Rome, but that is the place for young energetic people. I would stay there at least 5-7 days(two days really is 0 full days as you arrive one day and leave the next).Then a stop in southern Tuscany,Montepulciano,with a group maybe a rental for a week, wine and cooking can be arranged there or near,drive into chianti at will or siena.Then on to florence for the remaining few days fly back from there(if you didn't buy your tickets yet).RR

If I count correctly, you're planning on staying in 6 locations over 16 nights. Strongly suggest you rethink that plan!

Two simple suggestions for cutting down on how many times you are moving locations (packing/unpacking, hauling luggage around), though it still leaves you with 4 different bases in 16 days:

l. Put all of your Rome stay at the end, since you fly out of there. I'm betting your arrival into Rome is fairly early in the day, no? Plan to get on a train and head straight for Florence.

2. Don't stay in both Chianti and the area south of Siena...group that into one longer stay and do daytrips.

I'm also not a big fan of Umbertide itself, and would recommend looking at other Umbria-base options.

Best wishes,

As I started reading your itinerary I was thinking no, no, no! Two days in Rome!? The first couple of days you'll be in a jetlagged daze, so give yourself some time to adjust. At least 4 days in Rome - take one or two guided walking tours, such as to the Vatican & St Peters, and the Colosseum, then take some time to savor the small stuff and just wander. The Borghese Gallery, IMHO, is one of the most sublime art experiences in Europe, and very accessible - you don't have to know much about "art" to appreciate the amazing sculptures there. Stay another 4 days or so in Florence; if your daughters are shoppers, they will love it there. Then another 4 days or so in the countryside with a car - choose either the Chianti region (yes, there is bus service between Radda and Siena) or the area south of Siena (Montepulciano, Pienza etc). Then you can take the last few days (I've lost count, do you still have 3 or 4 days left?) in Umbria, ending up in Rome before your flight home. You can do one-day cooking lessons in Florence, Chianti, and in Umbria.
- Marie

Sally got her post in just before mine - yes, you could do Rome at the end, in which case your itinerary would look like this:
Florence - 4 nights
Tuscan countryside - ONE PLACE - 5 nights
Umbria (I like Spello as a base) - 3 nights
Rome - 4 nights

Or some variation of the above.
- Marie

I would aslo concentrate on either Tuscany or Unbria alone, not doing both. On arrival train straight to Florence, on the first saturday rent a car and reach a rental in either Tuscany or Umbria and spend a week there, doing daytrips in the surrounding area, on the second Saturday return to Rome and spend the final 5 days there. I may push it even further: if you opt for Umbria, cut off Florence and spend the initial 4 days in Perugia instead.

Bill: actually I wasn't going to suggest to necessarly cut it. What I suggested was to visit either Tuscany or Umbria and not try to do both. So, either Florence + Tuscan countryside or Perugia + Umbrian coutryside. Both + Rome, obviously.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Thayer:
Ah, Boobykins not quite alert this morning.

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Uhm: could use that kind of breakfast too, or rather snack since here it's (heck!) 6 pm. I'll go for a tea and some grape. Kidney depuratives!

I can see that it makes sense to lump all of the Rome visit at the end. I agree that we need to cut down on number of places to stay.Soo... if we stayed in the Greve, Chianti for a longer stay, it is still manageable to visit Siena, Montepulciano, Montalino, the Abadias (and some other small towns which people seem to enjoy) from this one location? On the other hand, one of the interests in Perugia is the chocolate factory for us chocaholics, as well as the Peruginos, etc. It is hard to figure out how much of an area we can reasonably cover from one location without moving our base. This was the reason for picking 2 very well recommended places to stay in Umbertide and/or outside of Montepulciano. Italian Connection, both you and Sally seem to prefer another Umbria base (Spello, why?) I am just trying to get a little more info. And yes, Bill, it makes sense to maintain one's sanity rather than zip around and have no idea what you are seeing because of being too exhausted to enjoy it.

How about going back to your original idea of staying outside Montepulciano - and just increase it from 5 days to a week? You can day trip to Siena, Montalcino and many more from that location and the driving is pretty mellow. You could even do a long day trip to Perugia.

Adding extra time in Florence will give you a chance to taking cooking classes and you can usually find a variety of musical offerings, as well.

-Krista

I mentioned Spello as a base because it is a nice town in and of itself, with several good hotels and restaurants, and is well-located for day trips. Others on the board may have recommendations for another, equally well-located town.
And, to answer your questions regarding visiting south-central Tuscany from Chianti: yes, this can be done as a longish day trip, with travel time by car about 1 1/2 hours each way.
- Marie

Bill

Gazetteer of Umbria

Hmmm, the more input I get, the more difficult to make decisions. Bill, I have looked at the wealth of info you have on Umbria, would not know how to pick one base over another, but could easily stick with your suggested hierarchy. From what you all have said, it sounds like one base might be in Chianti, could take the bus to Siena if we want and not drive, then making wider and wider circles out from there. We could see the afore mentioned areas and perhaps Cortona from this one location, right? A second, shorter time might be spend in Umbria to visit a few more places, then return to Rome. I will look into your recommendations for a base, Bill, anyone else have a suggestion? I am still thinking about Montepulciano. From what you have said, it does not seem like a big deal to come up with a few cooking classes, maybe even wait to arrange through where we are staying? If we extend in Florence as you have suggested, maybe we do not need to stop at an outlet south of Florence?

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Thayer:
If you want something a bit quieter yet equally or even more central, Gualdo Cattaneo would be good: very beautiful scenery; someone a few months ago praised their rental there (use that "Find" button, I guess).

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'Twas me, I think: the rental, le case gialle, is often described as being close to Bevagna (5km), though Gualdo Cattaneo (2km) is certainly closer. I agree absolutely about the scenery; as a town for shopping, eating, drinking, I find Gualdo rather charmless (certainly compared with Bevagna, which is a real charmer).

Le Case Gialle have 3 good reviews on site already; it would have a 4th if I could get down to writing up our previous trip, rather than planning our next one...

Jonathan

Again I would do Three locations only southern tuscany,florence and Rome.I am not sure why someone said it takes 1.5 hours from Montepulciano to chianti unless I am wrong chianti is the area between florence and Siena.My source says Montepulciano to Siena is a 45 minute drive so maybe to northern Chianti it takes 1.5 hour. I would fly back from florence if possible so Rome then Southern Tuscany/chianti leave from florence.I would say that it makes sense to do daytrips from a smaller town(Montepulciano) into rural areas like chianti but I wouldn't do ANY DAYTRIPS from Rome or Florence either place has too much to see for a month much less a few days.RR

Jonathan,Thanks for what you said, I had looked at Le Case Gaille before, but unfortunately, it seems that they only have one bedroom (for 2people) and one sleeper sofa (for 2 more). Am not sure my group would want this, but will check it out! Thanks

Let me insert here my usual sermon about daytrips. I think they are highly overrated, but almost everyone makes them, myself included. Just keep in mind that in most Italian towns, everything except restaurants closes down from 12:00 or 12:30 until 3:00 or 3:30. This is a big chunk of your sightseeing day. You can use the time to drive to another town, but you'll not have a lot if time if you want to drive home before dark. And it always takes longer than you think it will to get anywhere.

The morale of the story is pick an interesting place to base yourself. You may be seeing more of it than you thought.

Callie

I agree on daytrips they arn't my style.
Exceptions in rural areas to go to wineries and small towns,Cities are way too hectic.The only time I have gone into a city for a day was to start a race,I had no intention of seeing the town(last example bologna,also Faenza at end of race)Staying in town allows you to have a retreat to lay down in the afternoon before another bout of site seeing also it allows exploring early in the morning or late at night,no parking hassles etc.Florence as a single daytrip or rome is way too much.A week at least for the large cities is ideal,unless you have no long list of things to do which 99.9% have on their trips.RR

Everyone knows I love Umbertide -- but because it is kind of our nondescript 'home town' -- not because it is a beautiful place to visit! I have to agree with Sally and Bill. There are many better places for a first time visitor to base themselves. It would be like someone saying they want to visit Lake Tahoe so they base themselves in Sacramento.
I also agree with the majority who say you should stick to Tuscany or Umbria but not both. I, of course, prefer Umbria.

I think that the visitor’s reason for a day trip needs to be considered before he sets out.
If you are doing day trips to visit museums and shops in a particular town, then the siesta issue is a problem.
If you are like me, you are doing day trip to see the scenery on your way; to take a few white road diversions; and to enjoy a long leisurely lunch when you get to you destination.
Then if you plan traditional sight seeing in that town, you're planning it for after lunch.
Example: Let's say we want to visit Gubbio for a day. We will leave Umbertide at about 10AM. Maybe instead of heading straight there, we will go the round about way through Castiglione. When we get to Gubbio, it is probably 11:30 or 12. We park at the bottom of town and visit the Teatro Romano which is open air and not closed for siesta. Then we walk up into town to have lunch. If this is going to be our major meal of the day, we may eat at a ristorante like Taverna del Lupo. If we plan a big dinner we may settle for lunch at a trattoria or pizzeria. We relax at lunch for 1 1/2 to 2 hours and by that time the museums and shops have reopened. We leave town after the passeggiata has begun and either drive back to the house, or to a restaurant for the evening.