Message: I'm going to Rome for the second time this weekend. I have seen the big stuff, and this time I want to see the little things that most tourists don't get around to seeing, or don't know about. So I'm looking for people to share their secrets or info tidbits that they may have. Thanks Oh and it can be anything you think is neat.
-- Rar Transplanted into Italy Fino a July 03
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kim,
Not quite sure how far down you went with "the big stuff", since I haven't myself seen some of what I still consider big; but here's a quick and very incomplete grab-bag with apologies if you'd already included them. Many of them are small items, but that can be considered of special interest.
• S. Clemente, the Roman remains and the mithraeum beneath the church. • S. Maria in Cosmedin, the 8c mosaic from the old St. Peter's (one of the very few bits that remain of that church). • The hanging latrine -- only one remains -- in the N stretch of the Aurelian wall. • The snake carved into the "prow" of the Isola Teverina. • Milestones I and VII from the Via Appia, on either side of the stairs up to the Campidoglio -- people often overlook them. • S. Costanza, one of the best Late Antique mosaic ensembles outside of Ravenna. • the "keyhole" of S. Maria del Priorato on the Aventine, thru which you can see the dome of St. Peter's: quite famous, but still kinda neat • the Synagogue • the Acqua Paola on the Janiculum; hardly small, but again, few go look • the curious Anisson monument to the side of S. Maria Maggiore (see my page for an explanation). • the three oratories in the gardens of S. Gregorio Magno, which just maybe include remains of the very first Christian church in the City • rival contender, the wooden table on which St. Peter is said to have said Mass, preserved in S. Prassede -- see also the column of the Flagellation in the Cappella S. Zenone, well worth seeing for its intimate space of mosaics, too • the Amphitheatrum Castrense • have you seen all the Statue Parlanti? • the Testaccio can be visited I believe half a day a week, or by appointment • this too should be among the big stuff, although it's very small in size, but again, often bypassed: the interior of S. Carlino alle Quattro Fontane • in the Vatican, people downright ignore one of the most beautiful spaces, though it's quite visitable, the Cappella Nicolina. While at the Vatican, the trip to the top of the dome; the Grottoes, by reservation a day or two ahead of time, but quite open. I seem to have vaguely heard of guided tours of the gardens, also? • nobody goes to look at SS. Cosma e Damiano, though it's open and central, and well worth it. And you will have the place to yourself. • the oldest remaining gate in the City (probably no more than a postern, but still), in an administrative office of the Banca d'Italia, 157B-158 Largo Magnanapoli: open weekdays during banking hours only, and not really open to the public, but they can be cajoled.
• The colossal foot in the almost perforce eponymous via del Piè di Marmo • have you seen all the obelisks? Rome has half of all known Egyptian obelisks in the world, outstripping Egypt; the smallest one is about a block from the train station, and rededicated to the dead of the battle of Dogali (Ethiopia, 1887). • in the comitium in front of the senate-house, with a clear coast and no fear of leaping over the little iron gate, you can go down into the oldest space under the Forum, where the Black Stone (Lapis Niger) may still be. Take a flashlight. • the so-called footprints of St. Peter (a copy actually, but an old one) in the church of Domine Quo Vadis? • the Roman tunnels and underground water fountains, restored in the Renaissance, on the Palatine; and in general, few people go look at the Palatine, where there are all kinds of neat things. • the curious little church of S. Bernardino alle Terme. • mentioned from time to time on this board, the charnel house of the church of S. Maria della Concezione dei Cappuccini. • the Cloaca Maxima is visitable from time to time, check the papers; usually I think on Saturdays. A small piece of it requires no appointment, across from the church of S. Giorgio in Velabro.
My dog by now is crossing his legs, so we better go out for our walk; I'm sure I'll be back with more. (More sights, that is, not dogs or legs.)
[This message was edited by Bill Thayer on 05 May 2003 at 01:45 PM.]
quote:Originally posted by Bill Thayer: • mentioned from time to time on this board, the charnel house of the church of S. Maria della Concezione dei Cappuccini.
I too was going to mention this- it was one of my favorite sights when I was in Rome. I had OD'ed on the "big stuff" that my (then new) husband really wanted to see. I was frankly being unbearable because I was pining for Umbria, and feeling overwhelmed by Rome. This odd and fascinating spot was of a scale I could handle, and for some reason I found it a real respite from the rest of Rome!
Capuchins are more likely than many other orders to remember mortality in this kind of way, so yes.
Anyhoo, Light of my Life and I are back from our walk, all six of our legs are uncrossed; resuming:
• the alchemical ceiling of S. Maria in Domnica, and -- I know you've heard me rave on about it before -- the stone boat in front of the church. I'll e-mail you a bottle of wine if you can steer me to whether this is, or is not, the original Roman boat/a Renaissance copy; in the latter case, if you can produce the original Roman boat, I'll devirtualize that bottle of wine. • as mentioned a few days ago, the church of S. Maria dell' Orazione e Morte (even if on a sad stretch of the Via Giulia: I cannot understand why that dismal shadeless lifeless street has so many fans!) • the British military cemetery, a truly beautiful oasis in the City. • the dogs of the Palazzo Spada • not a specific sight, but an atmospheric place that for some reason people don't see: the "back" of the Capitol, i.e. the walk up the road across from S. Maria della Consolazione, which at one point gives us the most nearly Etruscan impression of what Rome must have been like in remote Antiquity (like the 7c and 6c BC). • there's always a full exploration of the Fountains of Rome to fall back on; showing no originality at all, I'll admit my favorite to be the Tartarughe. A comprehensive website, though, is here. • the excubitorium of the 7th Cohort of Vigiles: an ancient Roman fire station, preserved more or less intact, underground, in the Trastevere (details here); an extraordinarily atmospheric place; visit by request. • also underground, also visitable on request, 'cept the request may have to be backed up by some big guns, but maybe UniBo can give you something on a letterhead; the 4-story Roman apartment building (insula) back behind the Tyepwriter. Yes, all 4 stories underground; I haven't been, but seen pix. • the Museo di Torquato Tasso, in the convent where the poet died, also in the Trastevere. • the place where Julius Caesar died, or within a very very few feet of it, in the Theatre of Pompey; visitable by request. • several odd places that one can occasionally catch open or with a very easy permission: the Mausoleum of Augustus, the so-called Temple of Minerva Medica near Termini, a piece of the Gardens of Sallust now in private hands as a lecture hall. • the Domus Aurea if you haven't seen it. • Hadrian's Mausoleum, big as it is, also has an inside, so to speak, well worth it: much of it is still ancient, the rest is medieval and gives an insight into papal-military politics, connecting with the Passetto etc. • the Stilicho inscription on the Porta Maggiore -- inconspicuous and partly overgrown with small plants, to the left of the gate as you face in towards the city; unusual because Stilicho's memory was condemned and almost all his inscriptions were defaced, yet this one survives. • the hypogeum nearby with delicate and beautiful plasterwork of the 1c AD: you'll need very big guns from UniBo for this one.
[This message was edited by Bill Thayer on 05 May 2003 at 01:47 PM.]
Dean, thank you, but there is a lot left to say! I've just touched on the kinds of things I'm particularly interested in -- and there, only scratched the surface, mostly, believe me, out of ignorance. Others will have other ideas, I'm sure. I am not, for instance, terribly interested in painting and anything after the Middle Ages; so search the board for the Caravaggios mentioned a while back (were they in S. Maria del Popolo?) vel sim.
Which reminds me to add to the list:
• the trompe-l'oeil ceiling by Pietro di Cortona in the Palazzo Barberini, the kitsch of the giant bees and the nymphettes, yet with the technical virtuosity and the beauty of the colors -- made an impression on me anyway...
And forgot two of my own favorites: • for sundial and astronomy buffs, the meridian dial in S. Maria degli Angeli, that just turned 300 years old last October. • the Roman door (wood) of S. Sabina on the Aventine; which is the oldest known monumental Roman wooden carving anywhere, also includes one of the earliest depictions of the Crucifixion. Though woefully incomplete, my own page on the door is for now the best thing online. • speaking of Roman doors, mind you, the original doors to the Roman senate-house are now at St. John Lateran; in the same church, the cloister gets neglected, and the tomb of Lorenzo Valla is of peculiar interest to church history buffs; and the tombstone of Pope Silvester II (the astrologer) is said, and then again maybe not, to make odd noises when a pope is about to die.
For the insula next to the Monumento a Vittorio Emmanuele, some idea of it from Kalervo Koskimies' site -- maybe the best website by the way for photographs of Rome, at least in the sense that it's fairly comprehensive plus he captions them -- here; but I'm not coming up with much; the official site of the City of Rome is a fiend to navigate...
While looking for that, I found this item I had no idea of: "Basements of San Giovanni - Addolorata Hospital Charming archaeological itineraries (2 to 4 hours) along the basements and the monumental courtyards of the hospital. It is possible to see: the Villa degli Anni, the Villa of Domitia Lucilla and the Villa of Licinius Sura. (Azienda Ospedaliera "Complesso Ospedaliero San Giovanni-Addolorata" Ufficio Speciale Obiettivo H2000 - Via dell'Amba Aradam, 9 - phone (06)77.05.3011 Hours: Tue and Thu upon written request by fax at (06)77.05.3495. Admission: free offering" [Licinius Sura was a relatively famous ancient political figure, so that in itself is of some interest, since we have few houses left of anyone famous.]
quote:Originally posted by Bill Thayer: I am not, for instance, terribly interested in painting and anything after the Middle Ages; so search the board for the Caravaggios mentioned a while back (were they in S. Maria del Popolo?) vel sim.
S Luigi dei Francesi, just E of Pza Navona. I find them absolutely marvellous - but I'm one of those who is extremely interested in painting. And, although completely in awe of Bill's continuing achievement with the Lacus Curtius pages, I have to admit to being relatively unmoved by much of the subject matter. On the other hand, those 5th century doors at S Sabina (which I'd never heard of before following the link) look remarkable, and are now in my Rome bookmarks. I love that rooster on the tempietto in the Peter's denial scene.
I don't think S Prassede counts as one of the Big Sites. And again it was one of Bill's posts that took me there. A little church almost in the shadow of S Maria Maggiore, with superb 9th-13th century mosaics. And the scale of the church (and especially of the side chapel of S Zeno) is such that you can get really close up to the mosaics.
Here, if I've done it right, is a shot of the S Zeno chapel from January, with a pensive Philippa indicating the scale.
Jonathan
Posts: 2945 | Location: Stroud, UK | Registered: 18 November 2001
Bring opera glasses or binoculars for the doors Jonathan; as occasionally happens, I got a better look at them at home, once I got my telephoto-taken pix back to my scanner, than I did on the hoof. The plexiglass in front of them doesn't help either.
I will have to find something that you like...! Oil paintings it almost certainly it won't be, since they pretty much have to be shot with a tripod: the alternative is with a flash -- that usually becomes the main subject of the photo, alas. And carrying a tripod all over the place, on foot, is not for me; I tried it.
Maybe mosaics; now lemme see, where did I put my series of the Cappella S. Zenone.
Has anyone had the opportunity to view the Michelangelo frescoes at the Vatican's Pauline Chapel? I saw them once with the aid of a private guide with papal connections. Is there a simpler way to gain access?
Posts: 264 | Location: Santa Barbara, CA | Registered: 19 November 2002
I asked on our guided tour of the Vatican museum. i was told its very ahrd to get in because its the Pope's private chapel and even when the boss is away there is always a cardinal or someone using it. Its rarely open. Seems like connections is the way to go but I am sure that if it is possible to find a way, someone here will know.
Meet my lawyer-- Gianni Schicchi!
Posts: 4612 | Location: Casa del Fenicottero Rosa, Silver Spring, MD USA | Registered: 06 August 2002
Rar, given all the possibilities, then your telling us you'd lost your ATM card, I'm hoping you (a) did go to Rome, (b) had an enjoyable weekend, (c) are going to tell us what you saw there. I'm itching with curiosity! all the more so if you saw things that no one talked about, of course.
I realize this is late for your trip and my apologies. Hopefully it will be useful to others.
The only Baptist Church in Rome. Also holds the honor of being the first non-catholic church built in Rome since the Medieval Ages. 27 Teatro de Valle. Built about 1890 with funds from the Southern Baptist Conference. Now in need of repair its almost invisible from the street. This quiet and somewhat austere church has lovely Art Deco paintings on the walls by a famous Italian art deco artist. Notes have failed me here.
Bill mentioned the Ara Pacis (Ceasar's tomb) but its undergoing Restauro and Reconstructione.
If you haven't been The Borghese Gallery is an absolute DO NOT MISS. Also the Villa Julia Museo de Etruscani, a world famous collection of etruscan artifacts.
I like the Borghese Gardens. We spent one entire day just wandering. Watched the Italian olympic equestrian team practice, fabulous fountains throughout the park, and made our own archeological discovery. Which elicited exactly zip in enthusiasm from the museum people. Oh well.
There's a charming little temple to Marcus Aurelius' wife also in Borghese Park.
Posts: 2107 | Location: Phoenix | Registered: 11 April 2002
Rar Last year, we were going to try to get back to Rome for a few days. Specifically to see the newly re-opened archialogical site below the Santi Giovanno e Paulo church. I had hear that there are a number of 1st to 3rd century houses that have been opened to the public. They are the only middle class housing from the imperial period.
I couldn't gather much info. and the following were the postings at the time:
posted 18 May 02 05:37 PM In the last six months, I had heard that these houses (An appartment building actually) had been re-opened after some six years of restoration. It's significance is that it is the only example of working/middle class housing from the classical period. Does anyone know if you need to book? Opening hours? A website with more information? Thanks Gavin Santi Giovanno e Paulo Sts. John and Paul Church dedicated to two martyrs of Julian the Apostate's persecution in the 4th century. Below the church, there are 2nd and 3rd century Roman houses in which Christian's worshipped, and according to tradition one of these houses belonged to the two martyrs in the 4th century. They were martyred on the night of January 26th/27th 361, and buried in secret in their house. This was not only a transgression against the edicts of Emperor Julian the Apostate, but also a violation of Roman burial laws. To prevent disease, all burials had to take place outside city walls. That they were buried here is a strong reminder of the important place relics have held and still hold in Catholic religious practice.
posted 18 May 02 05:39 PM I found this additonal information, but still require help with opening hours, bookings etc. The houses beneath the church have been excavated, and the entrance to the excavations can be found just after the chapel of St Paul of the Cross. Work was begun by Fr. Germano Stanislaus in 1887, and completed in 1958. They contain a number of paintings, both Christian and pagan, including frescoes of the 2nd and 3rd century. There is also an early medieval oratory under the church. There is a museum of artefacts from the houses, which the sacristan will open if you ask. As always in such circumstances, it is recommended to make a small donation to the church.
Now back to the present. I have found this site, which I think is the one. If you scroll down to the photographs, it looks amazing.
At this other site, the following extract: http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Inside/05-97/churches.html Excavations below the Basilica SS. Giovanni e Paolo reveal a complex of republican to imperial age Roman structures (1st to 3rd centuries), including shops (facing the Clivus Scauri), a thermal establishment, and a rich villa (or several villas) of at least 20 rooms. We can descend to this ancient subterranean world from inside the basilica. Grilled bridges with railings lead us over dizzying arches and rooms on at least three levels to the nympheum, an indoor water-garden with fountain, fine mosaic floor, and a truly beautiful pagan marine fresco (2nd century) in subaqueous hues. The adjacent triclinium, or dining room, is also pagan in spirit, with its (2nd-3rd-centuries) border of handsome youths, cavorting cupids, and realistically observed birds, ducks and peacocks. In the tablinum, or reception room, we finally discover, up in a corner, an obviously Christian symbol: an orante, or tunic-clad figure with arms outstretched in prayer (3rd century).
We didn't make it last year (settled for Ostia instead). Would you please visit. Given that the above are the only entries I can find on the net, it's got to be the best kept secret in Rome and I'd love to get some feedback.
"If it isn't true, it's to the point" Italian Proverb
Posts: 893 | Location: Sydney, Australia | Registered: 20 January 2002
Note for the unwary: careful, the Ara Pacis is not Caesar's Tomb. If Julius Caesar is meant, he was buried in the Forum, and people still lay flowers there from time to time; if Augustus Caesar, he was buried in the Mausoleum of Augustus, which is a block away from the Ara Pacis's present location (the Ara Pacis having been moved by Mussolini several hundred meters from its original location on the Corso). The Ara Pacis is an Altar of Peace ('s what the Latin words mean), in which Augustus rather self-servingly glorifies his own rôle in bringing peace about.
Gavin, I just visited the excavations below SS Giovanni e Paolo on Monday. The entrance is now from the Clivus Scauri, rather than through the church. Admission was 6 euro. I was also unable to find any information on the net, but decided to take a chance and walked there from the Domus Aurea. The excavations are open in the mornings until 1 pm and then again in the afternoon. A limited number of people are allowed to enter each half hour, with the visit limited to 30 minutes. I got there at 12:30 and was able to enter just as they were locking the door. I'll check to see if the brochure has the opening hours. I also seem to remember that there was an e-mail address for reservations. Davi
Welcome SPQR! Great member name!! It is written on sewer caps and water works all over Rome and stands for "Senatus Populus Que Romanus" - The Senate and the Roman People - and has been used since Ancient Rome (I think - Bill am I right?).
Gavin, found the brochure from SS Giovanni e Paolo. The excavations are open Thursday through Monday from 10 am to 1 pm and 3 pm to 6 pm. Advance booking through Spazio Libero, info@spazioliberocoop.it, www.spazioliberocoop.it,www.caseromane.it Don't know if you "absolutely" have to return to Rome to see it - but I enjoyed my visit. The excavations are similar in size to the excavations under San Clemente, maybe slightly larger. The wall paintings are very well preserved -- far better than the Domus Aurea. The antiquarium is included in the tour, but much of the display pertains to 12th century pottery from the church bell-tower.
Pauline - yes SPQR dates back to ancient times, it is inscribed on the Arch of Titus (and I think some other ruins) in the Roman forum.
Topic Closed
Oh and it can be anything you think is neat.
