Colleen gives "the rest of the story" on famous (or infamous) commonly seen saints in Renaissance art in Saints and Art

That's really interesting. Thanks.

One question about Agata: how is it pronounced? Is the emphasis on the first or second "a"?

Thanks Colleen,

Everyday, while in Venice, visiting churches, my friend Kris and I would say we need to get a book called "Saints 101" so we could identify the "guys" in the paintings.

jan

Thanks, Colleen! Well done, with your usual combo of knowledge and wit.

This made me realize that everything I know about Catholic saints I learned in college art-history.

St. Agatha....breasts on a tray? I think she's the patron saint of mammograms!

Fun read Colleen, thanks!!

Pokey (ST's favorite mammographer)

Great read, Colleen -- a cheeky blend of info and ick!

It is helpful to have a bit of background to these recurring images -- Seb has always been a favourite of mine and he seems to be everywhere, looking soulful while adorned with a tasteful arrow or two (which are never disfiguring.)

I'm glad you included Caravaggio's Crucifixion of St. Peter from Santa Maria del Popolo, a great painting and one of the few works I've seen that really suggests how horrific martydom would have been.

Cheers,
Sandra

See what all you guys missed, not going to Catholic grade school and finding out about the saints at an early age.

Then there was my Sicilian grandmother's church in Detroit where I was baptized (which is now a historic site) with it's own statues of St Sebastian with arrows sticking out his side, and St Lucy with her eyes on a plate. I wish I could have taken her to see the beautiful statue of St Sebastian in his church on Appian Way.

Thank you, Colleen, for delving into a subject that struck, awed and mainly appalled so many of us travellers, especially those of us who did not grow up Catholic, as Dragonpat poitned out.

On my first trip to Europe, I stayed in a hotel in Oberammergau in ur-Catholic Bavaria, on a hotel floor graced by a sculpture of Jesus with oodles of blood streaming from his thorny-crowned head. Gave me exquisite nightmares.
Those martyr stories, as "backed up" by an unbelievable array of relics, are what I would paraphrase one French journalist as "the Gault-et-Millau of Gore".
Colleen, you left out one martyr and his relic in my favorite spot in Venice - Zanipolo: Bragadin who was - the faint-of-heart should stop reading now, - flayed alive by the Turks and whose skin has been preserved in a fancy jar there.
Look - if you really want to - for a jar with some yellowish content (according to Jan Morris).
This account however said that Bragadin's skin was stuffed with straw and sent back to Istanbul as a trophy. The above webpage has other choice stories of flayed martyrs (yup, seems to have been a genre) and relics. Absolutely TMI.

Great article!

Yes, "the life of the saints" was a major genre in the Middle Ages, and then I think it was one of the main sources of "entertainment" until the radio and the TV entered people's homes, especially in the rural areas.

This is why the title of this post alone made me laugh. Coming from an Italian rural area and having grown up with 5 of my greatgrandparents still alive (all from the same village of 350 people...), it seemed unbelievable to me that somebody might not know who the guy crucified upside down was... and also that you had to explain who saint Peter was!

Boy, how many things you miss in terms of "cultural relativity" when you grow up in such a homogeneous social environment as I did!

Thank you for such a great opportunity to see things with such different eyes! It was so funny for me! And I loved it!

Yes, great article, Colleen. Another saint we encountered in a little church in Bergamo was a mystery to me for some time, until someone who saw my photo told me he was Saint Rocco. Like Sebastian, he is supposed to protect against the plague, and is usually depicted with plague sores on his leg. Also, he often has a dog with him, but this picture doesn't show the dog.

- Roz

Another saint we encounted everywhere was Saint Barbara with her tower and her cannon. I am probably the only Jewish woman you know named directly after her (my Dad was Field Artillery in WWII) so we were on the lookout for her everywhere. She's big in Cappadocia, Turkey too! Loved the article and wish we would have had it in October. Next time! BJinNM

Thanks for the very interesting article. On my recent trip to Lucca and Venice I really found an appreciation for sacred art. One of the things that I found in Lucca was in two or possibly three treatments of the Assumption of Mary. As you can see in the attached photo, as Mary is coming up to heaven she is extending a red rope to one of the apostles (I believe that I read it was Thomas). I have asked several priests that I know and none of them have ever heard of this. Come on guys, what do any of you know about that? Even knowing the artist would be great. Thanks.

I loved this article Colleen! My 12 years of Catholic education did not include these interesting and sometimes gross facts about many of the saints you write about either. But I do know and love the idea of patron saints for specific causes/professions. At my mother's prompting I spent many hours in my youth praying to St. Jude to help me find an article (far too many) that I had lost.

I rebelled aganist my Catholic schooling in young adulthood but have been pleasantly surprised with my enchanment of religious art when I visit Italy. Now I hardly ever pass by an open Church in Italy because you never know when you might just happen upon an amazing gem.
Now I will look for some of these saints!

quote:

As you can see in the attached photo, as Mary is coming up to heaven she is extending a red rope to one of the apostles (I believe that I read it was Thomas). I have asked several priests that I know and none of them have ever heard of this.

Yes, it's "doubting" Thomas. An apocryphal story says that Thomas, who wasn't there to witness Christ's wounds when he first showed them to the apostles, also wasn't with the others to see the moment of the Assumption. He asked Mary for a sign that she had been assumed into heaven, much as he asked for proof of Christ's wounds, and she threw him her girdle (no, not underwear, but more like a sash). Thus the "Virgin of the Girdle" sometimes show up in paintings.

And they told me my art history degree would be useless.

Hey KT, thank you so much for the information. At last your degree in art history has paid off! I have been searching for three months for this answer. I am now thinking that Slow Travel has the answer to all my life questions.

Colleen, excellent - looking forward to the next part. So I'm thinking I need a St. Agatha medal .

Dale, but of course .

Thanks, Colleen. This was a real education for me, and a real eye-opener, too.

How was art like this viewed in its day? I would imagine that if we took photographs today of some of the things that were painted about in this article, the photographers would be run out of town.

Colleenk: When you lost the article you should have prayed to St. Anthony, not St. Jude. St. Jude is the saint of hopeless cases, (illness, etc.) Now, if you want to sell a house, there's St......but, that's another story and saint! Ah, those wonderful but strict nuns!

quote:

Yes, it's "doubting" Thomas. An apocryphal story says that Thomas, who wasn't there to witness Christ's wounds when he first showed them to the apostles,

The story of Thomas is not apocryphal. It is in John 20:24-29.
I had decided years ago that St Thomas (doubting Thomas) should be the patron saint of scientists. That scientists in matters of the world were better to doubt in order to discover the truth.

Although Jesus told Thomas that it was more blessed to be one of those who had faith and believed without having to see for themselves, I have believed that for scientists that if is better to believe, when dealing with matters of the physical world, only what you can see, weigh, or measure; That anything else is a religious experience.

I guess that it is the girdle part of the story that is apocryphal.

The account of doubting Thomas is indeed in the Gospels but the story of the red belt, often depicted in art, is not.

And this is an interesting thread but for this Christian, the title calling St. Peter "the guy crucified upside down", is a little flip and makes me uncomfortable, tho I'm sure no harm was intended.

And to think I was going to say Mary's red belt was a symbolic umbilical cord...

When the topic is Saints and crucifixion, it's pretty tough to skate aroung religious matters and religion.

This is a lively, most interesting discussion.

Still, just a reminder with a quote from our Forum Rules:

"No political or religious postings or comments. None."

Thank you all.

Thanks, everyone! Although I was raised Catholic and attended catechism every Saturday until my early teens, I either didn't learn or didn't retain much knowledge of the saints. Of course I knew St. Peter, but didn't know about his crucifixion, and had to study to learn details about the others in this article. I found it all very interesting!

quote:

Originally posted by WSB:
One question about Agata: how is it pronounced? Is the emphasis on the first or second "a"?

I always pronounce it with the first "a" emphasized, but will ask our language expert - aka Moderator David - to add his comments.

Kim,
This little St. Agata plaque is on its way to you in the mail. I bought it for you in Tubac, AZ -- before I saw your post in this thread! Pokey, I'm sorry I didn't buy one for you, too! As you say, *perfect* for mammographers.

(I also found a holy card for St. Lawrence in Tucson's Mission San Xavier del Bac that I'll scan and ask Charisse to add to the article.)

quote:

Originally posted by Colleen:I always pronounce it with the first "a" emphasized, but will ask our language expert - aka Moderator David - to add his comments.

Until David picks this up, just to note that my Garzanti Italian dictionary says the accent is on the first "a": Àgata.

Doru, we'll have to go with you Garzanti, because none of my normal dictionaries has proper nouns. I have an old Garzanti that doesn't. They list "agata" as in agate, but not the name.

I've just checked in that very useful resource, the index to the TCI Atlante Stradale. Several Sant' Àgata villages, all with the accent as in Doru's dictionary.

Jonathan

Thanks everyone. Didn't think of looking in the road atlas!

Excellent idea, Jonathan.

Here's some more confirmation. Cheers!

BTW, I thoroughly enjoyed your article, too, Colleen.

If you see a painting of a saint who is crucified on an X-shaped cross, instead of a T-shaped one, that is St Andrew (St Peter's brother)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Andrew
Two apostles were crucified (Philip and Batholomew), but I don't recall any art that depicts this.

That story about St Agatha was great. I had never heard about her, previously. I should get protective medals for all the younger women in our family because of how many of us have had breast cancer.

Thanks Colleen - that's sweet!

Dale,

What church in Lucca did you see the Assumption of Mary extending the rope to one of the Apostles?

We will be there in April and I would love to go to the church.

Leone

I'm afraid I don't know about Lucca, but the cathedral at Prato has a whole chapel with frescoes (by Agnolo Gaddi) devoted to the story of how the "cintola" (the belt or girdle) was brought to Prato.

Hi Leone,
The Church in Lucca where we saw the carved rendition of the Assumption is San Fredanio. We stayed in Lucca for a week and while I made it a point to visit almost every church, this one was my favorite. The attachment is the mosaic over the door. How long are you staying in town? Your visit might give me the energy that I need to post a trip report. I could go back to Lucca again and again.

Dale,

I can't believe the painting (or is it a ceramic or carving?) is in San Frediano as we have been in that church countless times. I guess it only shows that you see what you want to see, unless someone points out a magnificent piece of work.

We went to Lucca in 1999 and made an attachment to that city that has never diminished. I have taken my daughter and two granddaughters there and they feel the same way.

We always stay at the Hotel Diana as the owner, once you get over his slight grumpiness, is a sweet gentle man who has a lovely family. Every night he would teach Ted and I a few words of Italian.

Next year we will be there for five nights. Prato, to see the frescoes in the Cathedral, a visit to Florence, and after reading the Italian Notebook.com, a trip up to Pietrasanta to see the plump Madonna frescoes in the Church of San Antonio will be on the list.

And of course, a visit around Lucca to see all our favorite spots and restaurants, is always a treat.

It's a beautiful city.

Leone

If my notes are correct, the Assumption (Assunzione) is carved in the grand altar at San Frediano.

Thank you,Doru, for this information. Now we will know where to look for the carving and maybe to keep the eyes open to all the other treasures that are in Lucca.

Leone

quote:

Originally posted by Leone:...maybe to keep the eyes open to all the other treasures that are in Lucca.

One of my favourite cities anywhere.

THanks so much to Charisse for bringing Colleen's article on saints in art to our attention. I used to have a guide to saints' attributes on my website, but in the new version I decided it needs an overhaul. I am actually working on a students' guide to saints - with the help of my students - because I really do believe that it's essential to know your saints if you're going to understand Italian art. There are also some really good juicy stories about saints, as colleen has pointed out.

Colleen, i hope you don't mind that I have written a post on arttrav recommending your article, with a link both to slowtrav and to your article in specific.

There are many, many books about saints already out there. Two very portable and inexpensive titles are:

The Penguin Dictionary of Saints by Donald Atwater. Paperback.

The Oxford Dictionary of Saints by David Hugh Farmer. Paperback.

I'm sure a quick look at Amazon or Barnes and Noble etc. would turn up many more but those are two I own and use. You could probably fill a library with books about saints.

quote:

Originally posted by arttrav:
Colleen, i hope you don't mind that I have written a post on arttrav recommending your article, with a link both to slowtrav and to your article in specific.

Thanks!

At the end of the article I listed resources; "Saints in Art" and "Signs & Symbols" are the two I refer to most often.