There have been several threads recently where people have posted looking for others to join them on private tours.

Please don't post tour specifics - we don't allow people to solict customers for other businesses. Please just post the dates and the city, then get people to email or private message you and discuss arrangements privately - make your email available in your profile.

This policy has been in effect for a while, but we've simply been editing the posts.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Colleen,
I was one of those "gol-darn it" folks who posted, asking for people to join the tour I was looking at taking; as well as asking questions about the $$$ involved with that tour.

I had no idea that when I was posting this that it wasn't ok...can you please direct me to the policy that disallows this, as I've tried to find it and cannot! I checked the Message Board Rules for belonging to the board and also the section, First-timers: Read This. I just can't find it...must be my old and aging eyes failing me again!
Can you please help, Colleen? Anyone? Thanks, in advance...

“Bifocals effectively work the same way they have since they were invented by Benjamin Franklin. But as any of more than 40 million people in America who need bifocals know, they're a pain.” ~ Nasser Peyghambarian
Brenda

Well, Brenda, as the topic says, this is a new policy. There will be new policies from time to time, as we try to protect the non-commercial nature of the message board.

Eventually, the written rules will be updated to include this. In the meantime, you can take any "new policy" pronouncements from the moderators to be the new rules.

ok, I understand...so it's not my aging eyes...that's a huge relief!
Thanks for the help, Colleen!

"I experience a period of frightening clarity in those moments when nature is so beautiful. I am no longer sure of myself, and the paintings appear as in a dream.” ~ Vincent Van Gogh
Brenda

Message Board Rules - It falls under the "no posts about your business" rules. The tour company owner cannot post saying "take my tour" but we also do not want other people posting and saying "take this tour". Business should not be done on the message board.

You can post saying "I loved this vacation rental" in response to a question about vacation rentals in that area or "I loved my private tour", but you can't post saying "I am taking a private tour and it will be cheaper if I can get 5 others to join me" because then you are just posting for the tour company owner.

We encourage all travel businesses to take out a Classified Listing on Slow Travel and to use their classified or a "Special Offer" to announce tours or classes that need to be filled.

We also encourage all community members to send us reviews of vacation rentals, hotels and restaurants and to submit travel notes about cooking classes, private tours, etc. (next year we will have the ability to collect reviews of these things).

We want to keep the message board as commercial free as possible (limited Google Ads, limited clickthru ads, simple member signatures, no posting by businesses recommending their services).

When I oringinally posted my request for people to go on a tour with me it was not on behalf of any business. The tour company charges the same rate - regardless of whether 1 person goes on the tour or 10. I was merely trying to save me some euros to spend on food, wine, and purchases! LOL

Thanks for the clarification!

I got in trouble too.. but not for a tour.. mentioning an event I thought would be fun!

I am not involved in the event.. do know the owner..

I think you must have a hard time drawing the line..
I always hesitate to give suggestions, since I live in Italy and know so many people and fabulous places..
If I talk about those...then that is advertising?

Diva - feel free to forward those suggestions to me! LOL

Although you should expect us to pick your brain in person when we take your cooking class in October.

Diva it absolutely is a hard time. It's funny when we were in Paris last month, there was a tour I wanted to take that ended up being cancelled because of low enrollment. Yet I didn't feel right about posting here b/c it felt like "drumming up business" for the tour company.

With the item you posted, I think we're more torn b/c we all want to know about new and different experiences that we may not normally have access to but for the information you, and the others who live their like you provide. Then though, the line gets blurry and rather than being accused of playing favorites, or confusing people with when it's okay to post about business and when it's not, it's easier to side on no postings suggesting a business (w/o being asked) and keeping the line clear.

In my mind, if you have used the tour/restaurant/hotel/rental/store and you want to tell others about your experience, post. If your answering a question, post. If neither of those, and your post will/may create "business" for the tour/restaurant/hotel/rental/store, etc. don't post on the message board. Try to figure out who may be interested in the service (trip calendar could be a good start) and send a private message. If you tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on and so on.

I hope that helps.

Okay, I'm confused. When we were planning the Chartres trip, Mr. Malcolm Miller was specifically suggested as the tour guide to use by many people. And I have also booked an after hours tour of the Vatican with Helen because of the wonderful post about Rome Addicts experience. And I know several of us tried to see who was where at what time so we could maybe book together. Is writing about these kinds of people now verboten? Is this something that could be posted in the GTG section?


Ginger

Unless it's too crass, I think a term you might want is "shill." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

In other words, while the policy is intended to prevent commercial posting--blatant instances of which would be obvious--it has to be rigorously pursued in order to prevent shilling. Shilling could seem innocent to the casual reader, as indeed it is meant to. But if not nipped in the bud, it could quickly take over the boards!

To re-emphasise what Kim said--if you have used the service as a customer or client during the course of your travels, please go ahead and post your experiences or recommendations. If you are posting in order to fill a group or to recommend a fellow business owner, it is falls under the "doing business on the Board" category.

Got it.

Ginger

I just got an alert questioning someone recommending tour companies in a thread where someone asked for recommendations - so I think our policy is still not clear. I will try to put something in writing in our Message Board Rules section. But for now, here is an explanation.

- If someone asks for a recommendation, you can post one. For example, someone asks for tour guides for Rome, you can post "I have used this one" or "I just booked with this one".

But, this can be overused - for example, someone may answer as many questions as possible with "stay at my friend's villa, it is great". Then we will contact you and ask you not to do this.

Mainly what we were reacting to is tour companies offering special prices if you can fill their tour for them - and then people posting here to fill the tour. This is like multi-level marketing - the customer becomes the sales person.

Any travel message board is going to be somewhat commercial - we are just trying to make it not be overly commercial.

Oh dear. Now I am really confused, despite reading all of what has gone before!

I answered a question on where to go in the Cotswolds and suggested without a car it might be better to join a tour. I haven't done either myself (as I live there!) and have no connections with any tours but I suggested (note suggested, not recommended) a couple of companies I found on a web search which went to villages I know and like. The companies mentioned included one I have seen highly praised on this board. Is that being commercial?

I thought I was being helpful. Some people just don't know where to start on a web search especially if they don't what to see or how to see it! Was I breaking the rules?

We can certainly see the problems with all the grey lines here! We're discussing the policy, and will update ASAP.

Seems pretty clear to me ---- respond if someone asks for recommendations and you have personal experience; don't start a public thread asking people to reduce your own personal expenses by joining you on a particular commercial tour. This latter makes one an (inadvertent) marketer of said commercial tour.

The Trip Calendar and the PM function are terrific features that one can use in combination for this latter purpose. That is, if you see that someone is going to be in a place when you are, you can contact them privately.

M

quote:

Originally posted by Marian:
Seems pretty clear to me ---- respond if someone asks for recommendations and you have personal experience; don't start a public thread asking people to reduce your own personal expenses by joining you on a particular commercial tour. This latter makes one an (inadvertent) marketer of said commercial tour.

The Trip Calendar and the PM function are terrific features that one can use in combination for this latter purpose. That is, if you see that someone is going to be in a place when you are, you can contact them privately.

M

I SWORE I was going to stay out of this.

When does it cross the line? In response to a direct question if I mention that I like Romalimo or a vrbo property or Tony at 3 millenium REPEATEDLY do I become a shill? Even though I receive no recompense from anyone I recommend? I don't have a lot of different experiences or places to recommend despite 5 months on the ground in Italy because when I find something I like that I think is fair priced I usually stick with that company.

As an aol monitor I had to be purer than Ceasar's wife and couldn't receive any compensation from any organization I recommended. It's a ethic I have brought to this board. But does everyone practice that ethic? I suggest people mention my name because a) I want the tour operator, etc to know that I appreciated my experience with them and b) in the usually vain hope that whoever does mention my name might get the "previous customer discount" if such a thing exists. Or at least avoid the jacked up "tourist who has tons of money" rate which we all know exists.

For EG Does Friedeggs who regularly recommends Romeshuttle and gets a kickback for every one who books mentioning slow trav? Furthermore how would we know?

I know Rick Steves mentions places where if you say you are an acolyte you get a discount. Always wondered about how much Monsieur Steves made on that deal!!

Does a company that advertises here get more latitude? If people ask about where to stay in Tuscany and I say I loved Perla Toscana (repeatedly) when does it cross over into shilling?

It's not quite as simple as it would appear at first blush.

I always hesitate to recommend a tour company or guide, a pick up service or hotel, mainly because we all have different expectations, likes, dislikes, and budgets.

However, whenever I do, I try to make MORE than one recommendation, giving the original poster a couple of options.

I think it's a valuable part of any travel board to be able to offer these recommendations to a new traveller.

Maybe one of the guidelines could be to be to post only if you are able to offer at least two or three other choices?

And once you have done that, a search should help newcomers to find the recommendations, without having to continually recommend the same people or groups?

quote:

When does it cross the line? In response to a direct question if I mention that I like Romalimo or a vrbo property or Tony at 3 millenium REPEATEDLY do I become a shill?

In my mind no. If someone asks for a good tour guide in Rome, I would recommend Tony too.

But when you're going to do a tour with Tony that he charges $250 for and if you get four other people it will only cost you $50, and you start a topic with the goal of filling the tour then yes. Does that make sense?

The first is a recommendation - someone can choose to listen or not. The other is a direct solicitation to get Tony business. That's where the the line sits in my mind. Answering a direct question is fine (unless you are friends or have a business relationship with the company/person your recommending). Trying to get customers for a specific company event in order for you or the company to reap the financial benefits is soliciting.

But as was said before, we're all still trying to figure this out. I just know it would be a shame if people couldn't trust the recommendations they receive on this board b/c it turns out that many come from the company or associates of the company and are not impartial.

quote:

But when you're going to do a tour with Tony that he charges $250 for and if you get four other people it will only cost you $50, and you start a topic with the goal of filling the tour then yes. Does that make sense?

Yes, except that everyone here who joins would be getting it for $50 instead of $250, which is a boon for us people too. I think it does put a damper on sharing our enthusiasms.

I loved Tourist House Ghiberti but started to be worried about mentioning it too much when people ask about Florence accommodations so I stayed out of the latest thread about it.

Some people try to be helpful and look up tours going into nooks and crannies that might be interesting, and somehow alerting people to their presence once or twice is something that I've generally appreciated.

I sense that there might also be worries of tour agencies bypassing the classifieds here when they have these group bargains. But it's a very tough line. When it's obviously for a member's or members' benefit, when is it advertising and when not.

I think someone calling others shills because they love certain tour leaders or groups can also chill a good atmosphere too.

Just my own reactions to all this.

I think on a case by case basis, where people are obviously spamming, would be better. It's tough either way.

- Andrys

From my perspective, the thing that I loved the best about Slowtrav when I was planning my first trip to Italy and France was the generosity of you, the members of this board. There were so many people here who had so much more experience than me, and there was no end to the help and advice given to me.

I learned tons about where to stay, what to do and what not to do, how to get to some places and why it wasn't a good idea to go to others. I also made copious notes from various members' posts about where to find the many things I was looking for, when I had no idea at all about how to find them.

Above all else that Slowtrav is for everyone, this was the motherlode for me, because I literally had no clue at all about where to start and how to find what I wanted. If it had not been for the kindness and the encouragement from most of you, I'd likely not have had the courage to make the trip. BUT, armed with all of the goodies that you provided, I not only found the courage to go, I also had the good fortune to have a smashing good time of it!

Some of the information I was given was of a monetary nature, and it may have flown in the face of this policy...I'm not certain. What I do know is that every single piece of assistance and advice was like another piece of the jigsaw puzzle to me, and was integral in ensuring that I started out on that trip as well-informed as possible.

I understand the idea of 'shilling' not being acceptable. What would sadden me to no end is to have the many sources of great information limited for both members and browsers who would benefit so much by knowing about those things.

Of course, I would not support having Bo Jangles' Tour Company posting endless messages on the board, urging people to save a fiver if they were to "Book with the best...book with Bojangles!" Anything that smacks of walking along Kalakaua Avenue in Honolulu and having the aggressive street vendors of those questionable time-share opportunities shoving pamphlets into my hand would not be welcome, in my opinion.

What would be more than welcome is for everyone to have the opportunity to discover the many chances to see, and be a part of, whatever venues are available, wherever we are going. So, if Betty posts about a fabulous symphony concert that she knows is going to be in Venice in the fall, I'd want to know about it, 'cause I might like to attend. If Betty knows that there's a few tickets left, at such and such a price, I'd also want to know that, so I could get mine faaaaaaaaast!

However, if Betty is able to buy the last 10 tickets at a special rate for buying all ten, and she posts here to let people know she has these tickets if anyone wants to participate in this concert, this seems to me to be sharing information and resources. I think, though, that it may fall under the definition of shilling.

It's a tough call, drawing the line in this sand. Hopefully, wherever the line is drawn doesn't eliminate possible sources of information and participation for green newbies like me, as well as the experienced travellers on this board.

Being in Cortona last year was heavenly! I would have had no trouble at all in posting a recommendation for everyone to visit Alessandra's glorious shop, spend your last Euro there and then die happy! For me, that's being supportive of a great shop, owned by a lovely Italian woman who made my day in Cortona perfect. But, is that considered juicing up business for her? In my opinion, it isn't...I'd feel like I was only telling everyone what a joyous day I'd had, and sharing with you how you, too could have a "Palma-day" in Cortona!

So, maybe in the end, it's all in the interpretation, and each person's will be different, I think.

"The more alternatives, the more difficult the choice."
~ Abbe' D'Allanival
Brenda