I have just read through most of it, but can't reply because the Topic is Closed (?). And I have no idea how old it is and thus how pertinent the information. Maybe that's why it is closed!
Anyway, I have my (can't believe it) 70th bday coming up in December and I want to do something that's new for us. This infamous birthday is not until Dec 18 but needed to get some planning done for it.
We can schedule up to 2 weeks - and I want to be where there is SNOW! Would snow be here in Canada (approx Dec 1 - 18)? I've always dreamed of walking throught the pristine snow on snowskies, with the storybook cottage/inn/hotel waiting in the (near) distance with a fire and some hot toddies. Sigh.
Ok, I guess I better make my dreams come true, as this particular birthday is making me aware that our wonderful travel days won't last forever.
Where would you suggest? We enjoy walking, music, nature, birding, theatre, books, people, discussions, laughter - and we are foodies and have met very few wines that we didn't enjoy!
After reading the old thread, I am thinking maybe a week in Ottawa and a week in Toronto? What do you think?
Thanks for any help.
Carol / Brahmama
Posts: 383 | Location: Cisco, TX US | Registered: 24 December 2002
Unfortunately we can not guarantee snow anymore. Typically you would get snow in Ottawa and Montreal in the timeframe you seek but it is far from being guaranteed and certainly not guaranteed in Toronto. I can not remember the last time we were guaranteed snow for Christmas let alone early December.
I like Ottawa but I love Montreal (born there so it is in my blood) so would be partial to say spend your week in Montreal and then a week in Toronto. (Again, since I live in Toronto I am biased).
Maybe not Montreal proper but the Laurentians, which I would say are about 1.5 hours outside Montreal.
"I've always dreamed of walking throught the pristine snow on snowskies, with the storybook cottage/inn/hotel waiting in the (near) distance with a fire and some hot toddies. Sigh."
Totally the Laurentians. It is the Whistler of eastern Canada, but better (in my opinion).
I would "google" the Laurentians and you will see everything it has to offer - quaint villages, cute bed and breakfasts, homely villas, GREAT restaurants, wonderful skiing (downhill and X country) and snow shoeing all wrapped in a place that is less than 2 hours from Montreal.
As for Toronto I would think you could easily spend a week here - but it is not going to be in keeping with your quote above. We do not get anywhere near the amount of snow that we used to and like I said earlier are not guaranteed snow at that time of year. For a foodie and wino (said affectionately) Toronto is a great place to spend a week. And I think that time you mention is when we have our "Winterlicious" festival. This allows everyone the opportunity to check out T.O.'s best restaurants for a fraction of the regular price. Unfortunately the deals do not apply to wine. I have had good and bad experiences with Winterlicious but it is a great opportunity to get out and try something new.
Or you could split your time between Toronto and the wine country in Niagara on the Lake. You can eat at some of the best wineries in Canada that have both outstanding food and wine. My husband and I do this every year around Christmas (it is our special Chirstmas dinner) and we stay in Niagara on the Lake in a b and b and have a great dinner at Vineland (my favourite). They get more snow than we do (most years) so it will satisfy your want of snow and hot toddy when you get home. You can hike through the village (and the fort) and then return to your inn for a fireplace and drink.
Anywhoo, I could go on and on and on but will not. If you have any more questions fire away!!
Thank you for replying and writing such an interesting email! I will be asking a LOT of questions - that seems to be my downfall. But we are leaving a week from today (GRIN!) on a 2 week vacation so I won't start seriously planning for a while yet.
Carol
Posts: 383 | Location: Cisco, TX US | Registered: 24 December 2002
I know Canadians tend to divide on this, but I think Montreal is a much more interesting and attractive city than Toronto--and certainly more so than Ottawa! It feels much more "European" to me--more walkable, better food, more interesting architecture. (But I would certainly choose Toronto over Ottawa.)
Well I"m Canadian and shamefully have not been to Ottawa or Montreal or Quebec City or Toronto except for Pearson Airport and some business hotel agest ago.
So keep this thread going, we've promised ourselves a long weekend this year in one of those cities -- probably Ottawa since it is the capital and has the ROM (Royal Ontario Museum) there. For now, keeping tabs on seat sales and hotel sales
The ROM (Royal Ontario Museum) is located in Toronto.
If I wanted guaranteed snow, I'd go either to Quebec City (which is east and geographically further north than Montreal) or to Mont Tremblant.
I drive every year from Toronto to Quebec City at the time you propose to be there: we leave Toronto with no snow heading east on the 401; cruise through Montreal with no snow; but then about an hour later further east on Highway 20, we start to see a bit of snow "here and there"; and then just outside of Quebec City, there is absolutely guaranteed snow everywhere! If you check out a map you can see that Quebec City is just a bit further north than Montreal: it apparently only takes a little bit to make it snow country in December!
Quebec City is romantic, historical, has great French food, and is a small European treasure with French as the predominant language. Montreal is far more cosmopolitan, far more bilingual (English and French), and is a hip city.
I like Ottawa, but I would save it for another trip, simply based on what you say you want for this vacation.
Great replies! I am flipping between the Italian (Europe) board and Canadian (US) and I love having vacations/holidays to look forward to!
I, too, (bigtime budget traveler) will be watching for air and hotel sales. Also - we are debating between renting a car and getting a Corridor Pass for transportation.
We are flexible with time and can add some earlier days if we find things we can't resist - just have to be back about the 19th December so I can start cooking for our annual Holiday Open House.
It looks like we will have to get to Quebec City - which will challenge us linguistically (is that a word?) as I speak a smattering of 3 languages, but am limited to a "food" vocabulary in French. Marion, where do you stay in Quebec City?
And I will be googling (or dogpiling) the Laurentians which are completely unknown to me.
And Niagara on the Lake! Sounds just like what we want!
And we have internet buddies (never met but emailing for 2 years) in Ottawa, so have to stop off there.
How will we ever reach a decision! I love this "kid in a candy shop" feeling!
More later, Carol
Posts: 383 | Location: Cisco, TX US | Registered: 24 December 2002
Hi again, My mother is from Quebec City and my grandparents live there so I am happy to hear that you can (or may) make it there. I spent many summers and Christmas holidays there but I did not suggest it because I thought it would be outside your travel plans - as you did not mention it as a possible destination. So nice to have the flexibility!!
We never really had to stay in hotels but when I have been on business (for a conference or something) I have had the opportunity to stay in the Chateau Frontenac and The Clarendon. The Frontenac is expensive but worth every penny if you are able to splurge. The Clarendon is actually just around the corner from the Chateau and very nice. It is less expensive and frequently has room sales. I think The Clarendon suffers from jealousy because no one ever thinks of it - people always concentrate on the Frontenac. It was built in 1870 and is an art-deco building. Very beautiful hotel and there is an excellent restaurant downstairs (although it has been a few years since I have eaten there).
There are also SO MANY bed and breakfasts if you are so inclined. They tend to be less expensive than hotels. Make sure you get one downtown inside the gates or even in the old city - you can walk everywhere.
So this leads to renting a car vs. train. At that time of year with the weather being so unpredictable I would be all for taking the train. You do not need a car in any of the cities you are going to visit - except if you go to Niagara on the Lake. Once you leave Toronto the train takes you straight to downtown Montreal and then from Montreal to Quebec City. Once in QC you have a short cab ride to your hotel/ b and b. My only suggestion would be to book earlier than later. The train fills up especially around that time of year - students travelling home, tourists, etc. Also you get a better discount if you book early. Also, depending on your age VIA does offer (or always used to) a buy one and get one free for travellers over 55. My parents have used this on many occasions. I don't know too much about the routes on which this discount is offered but I do know it is not advertised! My parents always have to ask!!
Of course the train also goes to Ottawa from all the aforementioned cities.
If you google Laurentians you will be able to find everything you could ever need to plan a holiday there. And the same for Niagara on the Lake.
Quebec City used to be more french than Montreal but it has really changed. The Quebecers used to like for tourists to at least try to speak in French but it has become such a tourist haven that everyone speaks English now. You will of course encounter some diehard separatists that will refuse to speak English but you get that type everywhere. You will be fine with English and your French - as long as you know what to order in the restaurant you will be more than fine. No worries there!
It is very exciting planning holidays - and this board certainly is a great tool for helping everyone plan - whereever we wanna go!!
Hi Carol, what a fun idea for your birthday -- to visit here and enjoy some wintery weather, espy before January and February when it becomes a bit of a bore....by the way, my birthday is Dec. 15 so we're fellow Sags!
I'll make my pitch for Ottawa as a good place to visit, altho I'd also say Quebec City and Montreal are both fabulous! I lived in Toronto for a few years before moving to Ottawa and I have to say that it's something less than a winter wonderland (altho it has great museums and theatre)
It is hard to say how much snow we'll have by mid-December -- most years, it starts around the end of November but the first winter I lived here (1998-99) I think I was wearing shoes outside until mid January!
Besides the National Gallery of Canada, here in Ottawa, and the incredible Canadian Museum of Civilization which lies just across the Ottawa River in the Quebec city of Gatineau, the Canadian Parliament buildings can be quite lovely -- espy when the Christmas lights are up!
The Rideau Canal, which winds through the middle of Ottawa, is groomed for ice-skating and its very cheap to rent skates there or even walk along the canal (with plenty of places to stop for hot chocolate and a beaver tail!)
There are places to go snow-shoeing in city parks, or cross-country skiing if you want to give that a whirl. And I can think of a few great restaurants that have lovely views over the cityscape, the rivers or the Gatineau Hills nearby.
And it's actually cheap to find a good place to stay in Ottawa -- either a nice B&B right in the centre of town or decent hotels.
It's also a very easy city to get around in, especially if you rent a car for a few days -- not a lot of traffic, plenty of parks and green space (which would hopefully be white when you're here!)
Again, depending on whether you feel like some driving, you could fly into Ottawa, spend several days here, then drive up to Quebec City (perhaps a six-hour drive on good paved roads) or the Laurentians (three hours from Ottawa).
Oh, and by the way, I have three pairs of cross-country skiis, boots and poles so if you do head this way and want to give it a shot, let me know!!!!
Oh, and if you have a yen to practise a bit of French, many people in Ottawa in bilingual and just across the river in the Quebec city of Gatineau it is very francophone!
I also recommend Quebec City. I'm sure there will be snow in early December there (I was just there last week and there was still a bit of snow in the fields around town). It's beautiful in the winter time and with the old town to look at, the river, and the ambiance, it's a great place to visit. You can also go to Montmorency falls for some scenery. Lots of great restaurants and other activities. I recommend Auberge St. Antoine in the old part of town close to the river. The atmosphere there is great.
Hi Brahmama, I've just spotted this - try to bump it (as well as your Italy impressions) when you return!
There is another thread on Montréal (and the surrounding area) where I refer to the Gourmet special issue on Montréal - also including gourmet destinations nearby, such as the cider producers in the Eastern Townships (L'Estrie). I can answer questions about Ottawa/Gatineau, Montréal and Québec City. Indeed, with global warming we aren't sure of snow early in December, though this past winter, strangely enough, it was about the only snow we got! There was certainly snow in the Laurentians though, and in Québec, though much less than usual.
Actually most people in Québec, and probably even in Montréal, do not speak much English, but people in the travel, tourism and restaurant industry do, and often speak another language in addition to French.
I agree that the Clarendon is charming and often a remarkably good deal. Very pretty, pretty rooms though as I recall they were small, like rooms often are in European hotels. The restaurant is very good indeed and not too big. There are also many small romantic hotels in old Québec.
You will find some of the nicer boutique hotels in Montréal in the Gourmet special issue.
Ottawa is not so obviously charming, but it has a lot to visit, museums, galleries, the Parliament buildings and the canal that is skateable in the winter; cyclable and walkable in the summer. But I wouldn't count on the ice being solid enough to skate on in early December.
I knew a former MP (Member of Parliament) who actually skated to her office to keep fit.
I enjoy Toronto as well - like Montréal, a very cosmopolitan city, so interesting for foodies, though some of the best-known restaurants are rather overpriced in my opinion. (Lots more money floating around there). But I haven't visited enough for pleasure in recent years to provide up-to-date info - my recent visits have been to interpret at conferences and eat dreadful sandwiches catered in. But I did have a chance to walk around the Kensington Market off Spadina, interesting as ever.
Posts: 868 | Location: Montréal | Registered: 29 January 2006
We're back! And thanks for keeping the thread alive. Actually, my post title is misleading - I wasn't wanting to resurrect a debate BETWEEN Ottawa and Montreal. I was wanting a thread that would continue having all the wonderful helpful information! Just to clear that up.
I have just finished my Trip Report about our May trip to Italy, but haven't down/loaded the pictures yet so it isn't "published" for people to read yet. Maybe toward the middle of the week.
Now I can concentrate on December and the Canada trip. We have pretty well narrowed down the days leaving about the 9th and returning on the 19th. But we are flexible and can leave earlier. We could return a day earlier but no later.
I will read all the posts and take notes and be back with more questions.
A huge HUZZAH for Slow Trav. How did we manage without it?
Carol
Posts: 383 | Location: Cisco, TX US | Registered: 24 December 2002
Topic Closed
Not the ROM, I meant the National Gallery of Canada. Thanks for the correction.
