Hi

The other day I had a salad and coffee at my favorite coffee bar in town and I read the local newspaper. The lead article was by Fareed Zakaria from Newsweek (translated into Norwegian) and it was a pretty interesting article. I found the original version online so I can share it with you: http://www.newsweek.com/id/70991

The numbers are pretty interesting and even with a weak dollar it seems like the number of tourists coming to the States is going down. These are just examples of course...does anyone know that stats for tourists in general coming to the USA? Is it going up or down?

{ changing thread title and moving to the North America forum }

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pauline,

I can't speak to whether or not they're up or down statistically (sp), but I can comment that the last few times I was in Soho in NYC (or anywhere downtown), I heard so many other languages being spoken by my fellow pedestrians that I could have imagined I was in Europe.

I would love to see some of our European Slow Travelers visiting the states now - and of course if anyone wants to spend a day in the city (i.e., NYC) together (or see some of the burbs - Princeton and New Brunswick both have things to offer, not to mention some good hiking in Jersey and the beaches), feel free to contact me - it would be fun!

The original title of Gard’s thread was “America the Unwelcoming”. It was a direct quote (and should, I think, have been put in quotation marks) from the title of an article by an American reporter in an American newsweekly.

Personally, I find the reaction to sniff - and censor - “anti-Americanism” where it does not exist unthinking and distressing.

quote:

does anyone know that stats for tourists in general coming to the USA? Is it going up or down?

I do not have direct stats - however there have been a number of media articles recently about the huge number of European tourists in NYC doing their Christmas shopping.

Hi

Sorry if the title offended you guys. I just copied this from the article. We are going to NYC in the end of November and it is a good time to go as the dollar is so low. But I have to admit that I was very annoyed in 2004 when it turned out that my South African wife had to travel from our hometown Stavanger to Oslo just to get a visa. We are fortunate enough to have the means to be able to buy a flight both to get a visa and to go to the States. So I guess that also explains if the number of visitors has gone down.

quote:

Originally posted by Zerlina:
Personally, I find the reaction to sniff - and censor - “anti-Americanism” where it does not exist unthinking and distressing.

Changing a thread title to reflect the question asked in the post is hardly censorship.

I for one am not at all distressed. And now that I see the question meant to be posed, I am happy to give my opinion.

I see hear many many more "foreign" languages being spoken in various parts of Manhattan. And even here in Montclair, I see what appear to be European tourists visiting with friends and family, frequenting restaurants.

Interesting article. This article said that tourism from Europe to the U.S. is down ten percent despite the dollar sinking faster than a speeding bullet.

It had much of the same sentiments and I was surprised to read about the finger printing and treatment.

Actually, I should not be too surprised, as I was shocked at what boarding a plane is like now-a-days in the U.S., for traveling overseas. I felt like it was a gestapo movie..frightening.

I had not been on a plane since 9-11 and was sorry that my child had to experience that. Yet when we flew from Morocco to Madrid, it was easy as can be. We passed thru borders all the time here so easily, with never any hassles.

I hear coming into UK is pretty bad too though.

I do know some people who have RV'd around the U.S. and we run into various people ( French, GB, German, Netherlands etc) that proudly display their US and Canada ( and sometimes Mexico) maps on their RV's showing where they have visited there.

I hear that the Japanese coming to America is also down.

I think there have always been lots of foreign voices in NYC and area. I lived there for many years and always heard lots of voices in different languages on the streets daily as many different nationalities live there.

It is pretty shocking with the dollar so low and the euro and pound so high, that we are not flooded with tourists.

I just found another article with stats that shows that tourism is down on MSNBC. There must have been a press release on this with so many talking about this right now.

At least according to this last article there are several possible reasons. Still it is not a good sign and it is sad as it is such a gorgeous country not to be missed.

I'm a big fan of Fareed Zakaria (and Andrew Sullivan as well); I trust his opinions and insights just about more than any other journalist. Hence, I'm inclined to place a good deal of credence on what he has written in this article. I have read similar things elsewhere, in addition to the article cited by WT.

Yes, you can hear many different languages spoken in the NY area. As has been mentioned, you always could. But the issue isn't statistics or anecdotal evidence. Rather, it's the way non-Americans entering (or staying in) the US are being treated. I think the examples cited are horrendous. Do innocent people really have to be subjected to such humiliation, to say nothing of incarceration? Many non-US academics are leaving as well because of the difficulty they're facing renewing or even getting green cards.

What a shame!

Ann

Here
is the article I read recently in USA today.

It says -

quote:

New York expects roughly 1 million western Europeans this month and December, 5% more than last year, says George Fertitta, CEO of tourism agency NYC & Co.

As always, if we look enough, we can find a news article to say whatever we want.

{ fixing quote }

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Pauline,

It starts before you even get on the plane. Many people here are disturbed by the amount of data required by the US from travelers. It is exacerbated by the fact the US Government had to get special dispensation from the EU because the exporting of some of this data requires the recipient to show they are able to keep the data secure and Homeland Security were unable to meet those criteria. This data is also required from US citizens returning to the US by air - so if you are the victim of identity theft soon after flying in...

Playing the Disney video repeatedly to everyone waiting in line is another sure way to cause people to display air rage. Although the thought of sitting through a loop of Disney welcoming you to the US 6 times an hour for 7 hours every day has finally made me feel sorry for US immigration staff.

Here is another article talking about how Americans are flocking to Europe despite the weak dollar.

quote:

Americans are flocking to Europe despite the weak dollar.

This is off the original topic which was about Europeans coming to America and how "unwelcoming" the treatment is.

That said, I think the *key* sentence in your article about Americans going to Europe, is this one:

quote:

But many of the bookings were made months ago, before the dollar's most recent swoon.

As the dollar continues to plummet to record lows ( as most predict it will), the stock markets continue to fall and be volatile with the toxic sub prime credit crunch that will only increase this, and inflation has oil at record highs and rising.....


It only makes sense that less Americans will travel to Europe.

Many here and on other travel forums already are saying they will not go next year because of these trends.People tend to like to get more for their money, thus find cheaper places to go like Argentina, Turkey or Thailand etc.

The sad part is that more Europeans should be coming to America because of the extremely low dollar and so many Europeans are talking about horrendous treatment.

quote:

New York expects roughly 1 million western Europeans this month and December, 5% more than last year, says George Fertitta, CEO of tourism agency NYC & Co.

The key word here is *expects* and that it is talking about November and December of this year only. The data is not in yet, it is only an expectation.

Conversely, the information from the msnbc article gives stats gathered from 2000 through 2006.

quote:

Although there was a small uptick in visits from our next-door neighbors, Canada and Mexico, the trend in overseas visitors to the U.S. continues down, or flat, from its high of 26 million in 2000 to 21.7 million last year. In other words, despite the fact that the record-low dollar makes the U.S. a tourist’s and shopper’s paradise, the total non-North American number of visitors has actually declined.

And while some perennially strong visitor sources for the U.S., such as the U.K. and France, remain in the top 10, their numbers declined in 2006, down 4 percent and 10 percent, respectively, year to year.

Hi

I guess my main question is: what is your experience about coming to the USA? And for those of you that live in the USA: when you speak to people coming in from overseas what are their stories? I have been to the States a few times and I haven't really had any problems. But I know that my mother dislikes going to the USA because the way she feels she get treated in immigration and security controls. She has traveled to the States a few times to visit my sister in Ohio and I think it is brave of her as her English is not that great, she traveling alone etc. She is a bit exhausted after a long flights and she feels she is being patronized, bossed around, yelled at in security controls when she don't understand what do etc. So her impression is in line with this article.

Well...were are two of the flock who will not even consider returning to Italy any time soon. I know it's comparing apples and oranges, but we could have had quite the fabulous trip here in the States for the money we spent on a very modest trip to Italy, recently. As mentioned before, we made our reservations at least 6 months in advance and after anticipating a trip for so long, it's difficult to back out.

In addition, in conversations I've had with others who do a fair amount of traveling, Americans are becoming disgruntled with the imbalance and have expressed that they will be spending their money at home.

Gard, just so your mother doesn't feel alone on the subject, my own mother detests flying and she is not even venturing out of the country. Older folks are overwhelmed by all of the confusion, with changing gates and lack of services that we as mobile adults are capable of handling. With hearing aids, it's impossible to understand overhead announcements and once you are at the point where you can no longer do everything for yourself, the task seems insurmountable.

We get a lot of visitors from other countries here, so I'll do a little anecdotal research.

Pat

quote:

what is your experience about coming to the USA?

When I landed at Logan in Boston, returning home from London 2 weeks ago, the atmosphere in the room for passport control was really unsettling. About 10 TVs were blaring a cable news channel on which 4 or 5 guys were screaming at each other about a shooting in NY.

I mentioned it to the official who checked my passport. How can he stand working in that noise level, it didn't really say "Welcome Home" to me, and I can't imagine what it was like for visitors' first impression of Boston.

Gard,

As I live in 'tourist land' and that is Orlando, Florida where EVERYBODY wants to come to Disney, we do see a large amount of foreign tourists, especially British who usually come over for a 'fortnight' (2 weeks). Of late, we are seeing more European visitors due to the strong Euro against our dollar.

However, our domestic tourism, those from the rest of the US and Florida itself, are way down due to the downturn in the US economy. And like others have mentioned above, I am hearing a lot more languages when I head out to the attractions area (as local residents we avoid it).

As for customs... that depends on where you enter the US from overseas...

Due to past history from 2001, our border guards, and that includes the customs guys, are a bit more cautious over who comes into the US from another land. Keep in mind, they are just doing their job and, when you are here, we want YOU to feel just as safe as us who live here. When we return from trips overseas, though we are US citizens, we also get some scrutiny so we didn't bring something back we are not supposed to . With that said, it's not only foreigners who get the treatment. However, they do take more time and ask more questions for those without US citizenship.

NYC and Miami entry points are a little rougher... NY just because the agents are local and they do have a bit of a gruff attitude just because they are New Yorkers (I'm one too and have that 'hard shell' attitude at times). It's not personal but just who they are.

Miami is tough as well but we also have tons of drugs that come into that area so they are more discerning as well.

I don't know if that answers your questions but it is what we have seen locally...

You know, I've flown out of Newark and Kennedy a bunch of times in the last 18 months and never felt a "gestapo" attitude, even when flying to Israel. I found the agents at both security and the gate to be nothing but professional.

Flying back into the states, less than a week after the scare in London last summer, and pulled for extra security, again, I found the agents in heathrow to be nothing but respectful and professional.

On this side, when returning, I found the lines at Kennedy to be crazy long but don't recall any televisions there nor at Newark. If memory serves though, there were two separate lines, one for US citizens and one for non-US citizens, so I can't really comment to how non-US were treated but did note that their line didn't seem to move any faster/slower than ours.

I agree with Bill though, and the old quote, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." You can pretty much find anything out there to support a position.

But I wonder, if you're still seeing trips to Europe taken by people who made plans months ago which is why a decline has not been felt, doesn't it follow that it will take a few months for the European visitor to plan and arrive on these shores, based upon the declining dollar?

Anyway, I won't speak "statistically," nor will I guess at motivations, but I can speak for me and I'd love to see more foreign visitors here and I can't imagine that my friends/family feel any different.

quote:

As always, if we look enough, we can find a news article to say whatever we want.

I have never quoted myself before - this is fun.

quote:

The key word here is *expects* and that it is talking about November and December of this year only. The data is not in yet, it is only an expectation.

Here once again is an article written 2 days ago that speaks about the "increase" in tourism in the USA from other world-wide countries.

quote:

This summer's tally showed a 16 per cent rise in visitors from Western Europe, a 12 per cent increase from the United Kingdom and an 8 percent gain from Eastern Europe.

As I said, with today's media, one can normally pick either side of a debate and find a media article that supports either side's theory.