While I am still wrapping my mind around our Tuscany/Umbria trip this upcoming April, with loads of reading and planning to go, we have just decided to take our long awaited and overdue trip to the Grand Canyon this summer!

We will be there for 5 nights (not enough, I know). Stu will be in Vegas the week before, doing his annual hoo-hah with a bunch of his friends, and I will meet up with him on a Sunday. From there, we'll drive to the GC, hoping to get some nice day hikes in, check out both Rims, lots of R&R, and fly back home out of Vegas on Friday.

I'm so excited. I've been checking out lots of threads and links here. There's really a boatload of information.

So, first question - should I book a place to stay ASAP? We'll be there the last week of July.

* edited to change title of thread *

This message has been edited. Last edited by: teaberry,

In a word, yes. Accommodations book fast for the summer months.

Are you really going to try to do both rims? I have been to both (it's been years), but never in the same trip. It's such a long drive between them (or an even longer hike!) We just settled on one side or the other and gazed across. Enjoy.

Cathy

I think you will really enjoy visiting both rims. It is along drive, but an easy and scenic one. On the way to the north rim, take a small detour to Page and visit Antelope Canyon. Don't bother with a tour company. Just drive up to the gate. Just inside, there are local guides who do a great job.

Definitely get your lodging booked ASAP. For the south rim, use this website:

Xanterra

Try to get one of the lodges right on the rim --El Tovar, Kachina, Thudnerbird, or Bright Angel.

At the north rim, you can use this webaite to see the type of lodging available, but you have to call for reservations:

North Rim Lodging

Try to get one of the cabins with a "view". Even though there really aren't any great views because of the trees, the view cabins are kind of away from the mainstream and traffic. We had a pioneer cabin, which was small and very rustic, but adequate.

You may have to call as I just checked the Xanterra website a few days ago and the Bright Angel and El Tovar were sold out in early June.

I know the last time we 'tried' to go (hurricane caused us to cancel) we had made the reservation almost 10 months ahead and then we got the last cabin at the Bright Angel.

Don't wait....

I took heed of all of your helpful and forthcoming advice, and we are booked at the Bright Angel cabins - thanks!

I have loads of research to do, but I am already sensing opinions of two camps - those who say only stay in one Rim area, and those who say to do both Rims.

As we will only be there for 5 nights, and we do like a slow travel style, it sounds to me like there would be plenty for us to see and do just at the South Rim. Should we forgo the North Rim for another trip? Or maybe make a half jaunt one day?

Kathy, Our ST member "rnrman" is a Brit. who is alos an expert on visiting the Grand Canyon.
More than just expert, I would call him obsessed. In a very good way, of course.

Look up all his posts, and be sure to visit his website: http://www.canyontocanyon.com

Terry

If you are coming from Vegas think about doing a one day white water rafting trip out of Peach Springs. http://www.destinationgrandcanyon.com/runners.html It is one of the best days I have ever spent at the canyon.

Another option would be to do the mule ride to the bottom of the canyon from the south rim. I'm not sure what the prices are now. Used to be 60 dollars/rider. Rules are you must speak english, you must be dressed (no scaring the mules) and you cannot weigh over 200 pounds.

I wouldn't plan on spending 5 days at the south rim. It is the more commercial of the 2 sides, and although I adore the canyon I just can't stand 5 days on the south rim. My recommendation is
from Vegas spend the 1st night at Peach Springs, do the river run and then drive on to Grand Canyon south Rim. Spend 2 nights at South Rim, drive to north rim, spend 2 nights there, drive back to Vegas.

Or spend all 5 nights on the north rim (better views than the south IMO) and do day trips to Zion and arches. Additionally there is a BLM preserve called pink dunes park that is incredible.
Don't forget one of the newest national parks (created by Clinton) the Vermillion Cliffs.

Not worth the time or money is the train ride from Winslow.

I agree that you don't need 5 nights at the south rim. I love the north rim and still think you should consider that. However, an alternative would be to spend 2 nights at the south rim, then head to Sedona for more beautiful scenery.

Hmm. Are you both saying there is not really that much to do for 5 days at the South Rim? Or that we might get bored?

We both like to take hikes, preferably circuitous ones. From what I've seen, there seems to be no shortage of hiking trails. But, that being said, do you think we would get saturated with the South Rim and should move on?

Maybe some day trips from the South Rim?

Thanks for any help or advice.

If you are avid hikers, you could stay 5 days. But the best hikes are down into the canyon a ways an back out. Other than that, a walk along the rim trail would be good. But I think 2 nights, 3 maximum, would be best. While the scenery certainly is gorgeous, it might get a bit old after a few days.

The drive from the south rim to the north is about 4 hours, but add time for stopping. Also, if you can't get a cabin right at the north rim, the next closest lodging is the Kaibab Lodge, just outside the park boundary.

Kaibab Lodge

I've only been once, for just a few hours in fact, but I could not see the need to spend 5 days.

As Mike said, 2 nights/days is MORE than enough to see, do and experience what you'd like from the Canyon. Besides, there's NOTHING in close proximity unless you want to venture back to Flagstaff.

quote:

Originally posted by teaberry:
Hmm. Are you both saying there is not really that much to do for 5 days at the South Rim? Or that we might get bored?

We both like to take hikes, preferably circuitous ones. From what I've seen, there seems to be no shortage of hiking trails. But, that being said, do you think we would get saturated with the South Rim and should move on?

Maybe some day trips from the South Rim?

Thanks for any help or advice.

Ciao Terry:

Most people get bored at GC south rim after 2 or 3 days. If you decide to stay 5 days at south rim here are some day trips.

As previously mentioned the 1 day white water trip from Peach Springs. Also there are white water longer trips that start at the bottom of the Bright Angel trail and are 2-3 days long. You hike down and join the rafts while other people leave them at this point. Google the term Grand Canyon raft trips, you'll find dozens of outfitters.

Another day trip is the painted desert loop, exit east end of park (Desert View end) head out to the Painted Desert then south to the Petrified Forest (stopping in Cameron to check out the trading post - ask to see the art rooms - and have a navajo taco. Then come on back west toward Flagstaff taking time to tour walnut canyon (cliff dwellings) and then north to GC.

If you aren't into white water rafting there is a nice 1/2 day smooth water float trip ($40 last year) out of Page. There is a combination package where you can hike antelope canyon in the morning and raft in the afternoon. That would be the best combination in terms of the heat.
If you need reminders of what antelope canyon is http://www.danheller.com/images/UnitedStates/Arizona/An...eshow/img1.html#img5 will remind you.

The water in lake Powell is finally starting to rise so it is possible to take one of the houseboats for a couple of days. At the time of year you are coming there are some smoking deals. If you don't want to do a house boat over night rent a ski boat and tour some of the back ways of lake Powell.

Also outside Page is Monument Valley. If you are a western fan and know John Ford's works you will know Monument Valley. This is the iconic west, the west that the world knows.

Another somewhat longer trip is Canyon de Chelly. I think of CdC as the Grand Canyon upside down. You tour it from the bottom with huge towering cliffs of grand canyon colored rock above you. On the way into CdC you can swing by the Hubbel trading post. Part of the National park service; it is a historically accurate still active trading post. You can get original, artist quality southwest jewelry, navajo rugs, handcrafts etc.. These are items that the hopi and navajo make on the reservation and trade for the other items in the trading post.

Coming from or going to CdC take Arizona 264 along the Hopi mesas. Old Orabi is the oldest continuously occupied settlement in the western hemisphere. Longer than the Mayan or Incan cultures. However it is also not a "tourist attraction" and you won't be made to feel welcome. Second Mesa also has a nearly as long history (there is some squabbling about who was here first!!) and the hopi cultural center is located in second mesa.


The Lowell telescope located in Flagstaff is open to the public in the evening so you can see a terrific night sky through the telescope that discovered Pluto.

See if you can make your lodging reservation at Bright Angel for the Bucky ONeil cabin, or one of the rim side cabins. Check back once a week until you go. Persistence pays. I love the Bright Angel cabins. Built by the WPA they are log cabins that are in immaculate condition but still old and funky. Usually a hotel room is a hotel room but the cabins at Bright Angel are something special. If you can't get a rim side cabin at Bright Angel then the Thunderbird lodge will have the most rim side views. Get something on an upper floor. Main floor is somewhat noisy. El Tovar is the grand old lady of GC lodging. Presidents, kings and queen elizabeth have all stayed at El Tovar.

Food at Grand Canyon is expensive. All water is either pumped one mile virtually straight up from the river or trucked in 60 miles from Flagstaff. Remember that when showering. In terms of restaurants El Tovar is the best and for the quality it is appropriately priced. Having said that it is also the most expensive restaurant at GC. I like the steak house at the Thunderbird and Bright Angel can be good. There is a cafeteria about 1/2 mile south of the rim in the newer hotel area.

Eating outside the canyon doesn't give you much of a break price wise and you get the thrill of up to a 4 hour wait to get back into GC national park.

Take a cooler filled with pop/fruit juices/waters. $1 for a can of coke, $2 for bottled water, etc..

Some things NOT to do? Don't waste your time or money taking a flight "over" the Grand Canyon. Have visions of flying below the rim with the rapids rolling below you and the towering cliffs on both sides? Ain't going to happen unless you are bringing Steven Spielberg, a camera crew, and a permit from the national park service.

I won't mention that the flights have the worst safety record in the US. Ooops, guess I just did. I live in Arizona, we get the "another tour flight has crashed into the Grand Canyon" news. People think bad things can't happen to them when they are on vacation. They can and do. Don't take stupid risks for what IMO is minimal rewards.

In June our condors and bald eagles should be back. You'll love the condors. Huge, prehistoric wing spreads you can never forget your first condor sighting. The adolescents should be out showing off, playing with the thermals over the canyon.

Bring bicycles if you can. They aren't available for rent in the park and the best way to see GC is riding the paths along the side of the canyon. There are outfitters in Flagstaff who can bring bikes to you and pick them up at the end of your stay.

I like to go see the IMAX Grand Canyon show. Hokey, touristy, etc. but it is a blast. Sometimes touristy is good.

I'd mention more but then I'd have to ask "what are you doing with the rest of your life?"

I haven't been to the South Rim in 30 years so my opinion is outdated on that. But getting to the North Rim (which was lovely and much less touristed) from Vegas was pretty easy as I recall and we also explored Zion (one of my favorite national parks) and Byrce along the way. We took it at a slow pace with school age kids at the time and loved the combination of this National Parl Tour. Whatever you decide you will be blown away by the beauty of the area!

This year will be my 15th trip to the GC. Some folks like the Mule trip,you can do that for a daytrip or go all the way to the Bottom at Phantom ranch. You stay overnight and come out the next day. You need to reserve this as well early. For me I'd rather hike it but to each his own.

A very nice hike if you are in good walking shape leaves from the south rim lodges down the Bright angel trail to Indian Gardens. From there you can go out to a ledge where you can see all the way to the bottom. There is water several places including Indian gardens. It will be hot in summer. Start pre
sunrise.

An alternative take the first bus(summer about 5am) out to Yaki point and descend a few miles down the south Kaibab. The trail is more exposed and has a better sunrise, Ok its early but this is a life peak experience!

Crazy folks like me go down the Kaibab and across to the north rim then come back the next day 45 miles in all, the totally insane do this in one day.RR

Thanks for such a great response - I knew I could count on all of you.

I'm holding on to the reservations at South Rim, but I'm trying to keep my mind open to your many suggestions about moving around and not staying in one base. I must ask those of you who say stay at South Rim less than 5 days ... what is it about the area that warrants only a couple day visit?

When I google distances, it seems that to drive from the South Rim to North Rim is daunting - 5 1/2 hours? I certainly don't want to waste a whole day driving in a car!

We are avid walkers, but our serious hiking days are over. An all-day to the bottom (and possibly back) hike would be out of the question. But day hikes are totally what we are into. I've found a few websites that have recommended day hikes, and I'm presently investigating them. Here is one site that looks interesting, and if you scroll down on this site, there seems to be a lot of info about day hikes, too. Are there any in particular that anyone could recommend?

I want you all to know that I'm giving some serious thought to maybe only visiting the North Rim, and maybe also visiting Zion National Park. At least those driving distances seem manageable. I also like the idea that Zion is only 2 1/2 hours away from Vegas, which is where we will be flying into and out of. And from North Rim to Zion is a manageable driving distance - 130 miles.

Ok, back to my web searches, with my thinking cap on. Keep your ideas coming - they really are helping me. Thanks everyone.

Actually, the drive from the south rim to the north is "only" about 4 hours. But don't worry about getting bored. Make a day of it. Visit amazing Antelope Canyon near Page and Horseshoe Bend. Also, you will be driving right alongside the Vermillion Cliffs for part of the way.

I wouldn't visit only the north rim on your first visit. I love the north rim, but there are a lot fewer viewpoints than at the south rim. And, being 1,000 feet higher in elevation, your hiking will be much more difficult, since you come from sea level.

Another day trip from the South Rim...stop by Sedona. It is another one of Mother Natures wonders! The SouthWest is full of slow adventures!

Have you considered Toroweap (or Tuweep) Point? It's on the north side of the Canyon but some way to the west of the main North Rim center. Because the canyon is narrower there it seemed to us to be deeper and even more spectacular. It involves a long drive over a dirt road, but to us that was part of the experience ... we really felt we were in the Wild West. Visits to North Rim and Toroweap can easily be combined with Zion and Bryce Canyon.

quote:

At least those driving distances seem manageable. I also like the idea that Zion is only 2 1/2 hours away from Vegas, which is where we will be flying into and out of. And from North Rim to Zion is a manageable driving distance - 130 miles.

That is exactly why we chose to do the Zion, Bryce, North Rim combination! It was very managable for a relatively short amount of time based out of Vegas. I do think that the South Rim is probably more dramatic and the views what many people think of when you talk about the Grand Canyon. That being said the North Rim is also spectacular, greener, cooler and less touristed.
We gave Byrce short shrift because of time constraints, just a few stops at scenic outlooks (much like our car tour of Joshua Tree) and perhaps one short hike on the way from Zion to the north Rim. But I am really glad we saw it and not looking at a map, I think it was sort of on the way to the North Rim.
My whole family still rhapdodizes about Zion. It's just a very special park with great trails and a viewpoint of being "inside" a canyon. And I am all about short driving distances from base to base!

Colleen, I find I'm leaning more and more in this direction. I just shot off an email to the North Rim GC Lodge to see if anything is available. I'm thinking of starting in Zion for two nights, either a one or two night stay midweek at North Rim, then back to Zion for the last night.

WSB, I am totally intrigued by the idea of visiting Tuweep Point, and especially if we don't get to the South Rim, this sounds like an adventurous must-see. It's on my list. What an amazing view!

quote:

Originally posted by teaberry:
Thanks for such a great response - I knew I could count on all of you.

When I google distances, it seems that to drive from the South Rim to North Rim is daunting - 5 1/2 hours? I certainly don't want to waste a whole day driving in a car!
.

Terry

This is probably one of the most spectacular drives in the US. Your first hour is driving along the rim of the Grand Canyon. Incredible views culminating in Desert View. As you exit the park you'll be in Pinon country and about 15 miles outside the park you can stop and see the little Colorado. This is Grand Canyon circa 20 million BC. A river, cutting through rocks slowly wearing away channels, rivulets, spires, and canyons. From there you are in the north end of the painted desert. If you take Lee's Ferry crossing you drive down one side of the canyon and back up the other. As mentioned the vermillion cliffs are part of the scenery. The drive back into GC north rim is through tall pines. Not as spectacular as south rim until suddenly you are there!! Takes your breath away.

This may be 4 - 5 hours in the car but that's just because of all the time you will be spending stopping and taking pictures.

Also outside the desert view park entrance about 15-20 miles is a turn off to the scenic overlook for the little Colorado. Take it first of all because of the views and secondly this is probably one of the best spontaneous indian markets around. Usually 50 to 100 vendors selling everything from Navajo rugs, jewelry, pots, etc.. Some of the best, most original stuff I've found and definitely some of the best prices in the southwest.

When compared to the canyon I find the drive nice but certainly not one of the most spectacular drives in the US!

If I was doing Zion I would do north rim only this trip. The south rim is quite crowded even when we go in October. we have also been in september and December/jan. The north side and zion are closer together.

I would not do Zion as a daytrip.Sunrise/sunset will be missed unless you want to drive in the dark on twisty roads.

The reason we go to the south rim is we like the views going down the south Kaibab.But you can get good sunrise views if you hike a few hours down from the North. You need to leave EARLY. RR

Mary, Mike, Sheryl, reading all of your wonderful suggestions has me so torn, because I realize that 5 days is just not enough to see all the places I would love to visit.

But I have decided that we will be going the simple route for this trip. Since Vegas will be our airport, and I have no interest in spending long hours driving, I believe we will leave the South Rim for a future trip, perhaps one that will include Sedona, Antelope Canyon, and maybe even Phoenix.

It's only a 2 1/2 hour trip to Zion from Vegas, so that's where we shall start, and probably stay a couple nights, then drive 2 1/2 hours to the North Rim and stay the night (or two) there, and then back to Zion for our final day and night before returning to Vegas and home.

Now, off to find accommodations.

Terry - don't want to muddy the waters even further, but if you can figure out a way to do it, Bryce Canyon is one of the most wonderful places I have ever visited -- it is like a sculpture garden. It is about a two hour drive from Zion, and may just be too much, but I know you will love it if you get there! We visited both Zion and Bryce a few years back, and while Zion is gorgeous, I was much more taken with the fanciful lightness of Bryce.

Judy

quote:

Originally posted by teaberry:
Mary, Mike, Sheryl, reading all of your wonderful suggestions has me so torn, because I realize that 5 days is just not enough to see all the places I would love to visit.

But I have decided that we will be going the simple route for this trip. Since Vegas will be our airport, and I have no interest in spending long hours driving, I believe we will leave the South Rim for a future trip, perhaps one that will include Sedona, Antelope Canyon, and maybe even Phoenix.

It's only a 2 1/2 hour trip to Zion from Vegas, so that's where we shall start, and probably stay a couple nights, then drive 2 1/2 hours to the North Rim and stay the night (or two) there, and then back to Zion for our final day and night before returning to Vegas and home.

Now, off to find accommodations.

Good choice.How long of a hike do you normally do? 1 hr or more? RR

Judy, I would love to see Bryce. If we can fit it in, we will.

Rob, we love a 2-4 hour hike, and usually pack along a lunch/drinks/snacks. We will not be camping out, though. I've made reservations for us for the first two nights at the Best Western at Zion, and next at the Western Cabins at the North Rim. Final night will be at Zion again, but I haven't reserved yet.

Geez, this is the first time we qualified for a 55-and-over discount!

quote:

Originally posted by teaberry:
Judy, I would love to see Bryce. If we can fit it in, we will.
Rob, we love a 2-4 hour hike, and usually pack along a lunch/drinks/snacks. We will not be camping out, though. I've made reservations for us for the first two nights at the Best Western at Zion, and next at the Western Cabins at the North Rim. Final night will be at Zion again, but I haven't reserved yet.

Geez, this is the first time we qualified for a 55-and-over discount!

Bryce is great but I think that's too much.

We may be crazy with our foot transportation across but we don't camp! This year we even have a rim view cabin. I could not believe it was available. In the past I called 2 years in advance the first HOUR it was possible to make a reservation and the 3 cabins were all gone.

My suggestion for a hike from the north rim would be wake up early, I think the bar/coffee shop opens at 5am (check).Usually there is a shuttle going to the trailhead before sunrise the same shuttle company that does the trans canyon route. I have their number if you want. e-mail me. Anyway take a lunch, plenty of water, and headlamp or flashlight.Hike down
for 1.5 hr and admire the Sunrise, it will take
2.5 hrs to get back to the north rim.You could walk back to the lodge from there it is about 1 mile on the trail, longer on the road. Many times we have hitchiked back.The other option as you will have a car (we never do as we get to the north rim by hiking/running from the south, crazy us)drop the car at the north rim parking lot by the trailhead (I think this is safe)the evening before and walk back to the lodge.

Sunrise is best seen from below the rim, it's OK from the rim, it's Magic below the rim.

Sunrise is without a doubt the reason I keep going back. I can't wait for my 15th time this October!

Re zion. Very nice. The Narrows is a long hike if you do the whole thing. 16 miles with some stuff like swimming through some areas.Ok I understand that's not your cup of tea.But it would be worth while to walk from the end nearest the park upstream for a couple of miles then back. walking in the virgin river.You can get special booties in town and a walking stick.
Zion Adventures

They will also lead groups on the hike I'm describing on the Bottom up dayhike

Do you have a head for heights?. A great hike with some moderate exposure is Angels Landing. Amazing views.Not too long less than 4 hrs.


RR

quote:

Usually there is a shuttle going to the trailhead before sunrise

Which trailhead would you be referring to, Rob?

quote:

But it would be worth while to walk from the end nearest the park upstream for a couple of miles then back. walking in the virgin river.

Yep, we're definitely doing that. More than one friend of mine has recommended it. We'll probably make a whole day out of this hike - sounds well worth it.

I'll look up Angel's Landing. Thanks for the advice.

The trailhead would be the North Kaibab trail which connects to the South kaibab. The main descending/ascending trail from the North rim. There may be a minor trail but you would not want to take it.

As a picture is worth a thousand words, I took a photo off google that shows the approach to Angels Landing. Notice there are chains to hold on to,but many people would not be comfortable there. The view from the end is fabulous!

Wowza! How steep (and long) is that descent Rob? How long is the hike? (this is Zion, correct?)

(and many thanks for the North Rim trailhead info).

Here is a link to a discription. My suggestion would be to start the hike and then turn around if you are uncomfortable. It is a spectacular view. Spectacular. The last bit, maybe 300-400 meters has some exposure but it is chained. Do either of you have a big fear of heights?.

Angels landing RR

I'm okay, Rob, but Stu can be a little queasy. Those views look amazing. We'll have to play this one as we go, and maybe turn around at the point that it gets too hairy for him. I'm psyched about this trip.

You got me thinking Christmas this year? The lodge has gone up in price! Looks like rooms are available but at nearly 200/night.
I would also like to go to canonlands and arches, we havn't been. Flights to St george (direct from LA) are reasonable,250ish RT. RR

Hi Terry,
I came late to this converstaion because I have been in Las Vegas for a conference and am now visiting my friends in St. George Utah.

Check my article below for some info on the area because St. George is on the way from Vegas to Zion & the north rim.

http://www.slowtrav.com/usa/notes/ut_saint_george.htm

We did the Tuweap point drive with our friends. It is extremely important not to go if it has rained recently or is about to rain. You can very easily get bogged down or reach impassable places. Also you must let someone know where you are going and bring PLENTY of water and food. Unprepared people have been known to get into trouble there.

North Rim, Kanab (Best Friends Animal Sanctuary)and Zion would be a nice set of doable things in 5 days. If you like animals you can even do some volunteer work at Best Friends. They have some accomodations available at a reasonable price for volunteers. Check the web site.

Jeanne (from Utah)

Jeanne, thanks for the link, and for the good advice. I really appreciate it. There's so much to see and do in the area!